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Albert Uderzo has died

theguardian.com

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Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#111

Post by xaxsacsdaffbnk »

jordigh wrote: post #88
pvaldes wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.

No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtf…

PoC with large lips exist, presumably PoC using bones as ornaments also exist or used to exist. The story of Asterix takes place 2000 years ago.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#112

Post by poutrathor »

zouhair wrote: post #27
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Uderzo (and Goscinny, his partner in crime) are childhood heroes of mine, together with Franquin and all the other stripmakers they slowly got me into reading more substantial stuff. Supberb sense of humor and tons of tricks that you'd only appreciate if you read them again at a later age. Naive? Me? ;) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY83gwMW4AARkVP?format=jpg

M'enfin :(

M'enfin is from Gaston Lagaffe, a Franquin's child, as far as I know.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#114

Post by pvaldes »

jordigh wrote: post #104
pvaldes wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup…

Does a racist caricature exist? Does racism itself exist? If it does, what does it look like? If you don't think the pickaninny or the mammy are racist, I have no idea what you think racism looks like. The pickaninny and the mammy were part of minstrel shows and lots of other pernicious hurtful portrayals. Nobody has ever complained about the other characters in Astérix because there is no history of black people sys…

> Does a racist caricature exist? Yes

> Does racism itself exist? Yes

> What does it look like?

Stupid, unfunny, monochromatic and afraid to normalize the appearance of interracial couples, or to show black, jew, indian, or hispane characters in positive roles, or to depict different cultures and religions living together.

Therefore, totally the opposite to this comics.

If comics for you, mean only US schools and Steamboat Willy cartoons, then this is just a tunnel vision problem. Can be treated by exposition to different schools of cartoonists. In Europe there are some really big: Uderzo and collaborators, Hergé (Questionable first history, corrected later), Franquin, Peyo or Ibañez among other. Ibañez is undoubtely the wildest one; If you think Asterix it's politically incorrect you're going to freak out with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERFdmt6NOGw

And yes, is for kids.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#115

Post by jordigh »

throwaway5466 wrote: post #110
jordigh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.

I don't see why European artists should self-censor so as not to hurt the sensibilities of Americans just because your country was built on slavery and genocide. Sort out your wounds yourselves and let us live. (For the record, there are plenty of "black" characters (Numids, Nubians etc.) in Asterix and Baba is the only one with his characteristic. Many of the others are depicted favorably, as the other commenter sai…

I'm not from the US. I just know what racism looks like, unlike, apparently, many Europeans.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#116

Post by fruffy »

jordigh wrote: post #105
fruffy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny, I am German and that comic book was always one of my favourites. I never made the connection that it was supposed to be demeaning or that there was a controversy around it. I always took it as being cheeky like Asterix in Britain.

Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.

I think you are talking about the first publisher who tried to insert controversial elements into Asterix. He was somewhat of a nationalist. His license got pulled and the comics got re-released in the normal format. Those were two different things.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#117

Post by pvaldes »

205guy wrote: post #76
bvandewalle wrote: post #19

I spent hours of my childhood reading Asterix, Tintin and Gaston [0]. Each had an amazing slightly different universe. Now living in the US it always amazes me how different the Comics culture over here is. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_(comics)

Gaston is one of my favorites, laugh-out-loud funny as a kid and adult. Such great set-ups, visual gags, and word-play. For adventure, sci-fi, and incredible art, Yoko Tsuno was another great one that has stood the test of time. Oddly, I don't like Tintin as an adult, it's too whiz-bang and bumbling. After growing up on European comics, the ones in the US were bland, just plain crude (Garfield), or overtly political…

You are right, Calvin and Hobbes is in the same line. Very clever and funny cartoon.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#118

Post by jordigh »

pvaldes wrote: post #114
jordigh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does a racist caricature exist? Does racism itself exist? If it does, what does it look like? If you don't think the pickaninny or the mammy are racist, I have no idea what you think racism looks like. The pickaninny and the mammy were part of minstrel shows and lots of other pernicious hurtful portrayals. Nobody has ever complained about the other characters in Astérix because there is no history of black people sys…

> Does a racist caricature exist? Yes > Does racism itself exist? Yes > What does it look like? Stupid, unfunny, monochromatic and afraid to normalize the appearance of interracial couples, or to show black, jew, indian, or hispane characters in positive roles, or to depict different cultures and religions living together. Therefore, totally the opposite to this comics. If comics for you, mean only US schools and Ste…

I'm not sure what you're trying to freak me out with in that video. Cartoon violence? That's pretty innocuous and not at all what I'm talking about.

Do you know about minstrel shows?

Si quieres continuar esta conversación podemos proseguir por correo: jordigh@octave.org

Creo que también estarás más cómodo en español.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#119

Post by jordigh »

fruffy wrote: post #116
jordigh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.

I think you are talking about the first publisher who tried to insert controversial elements into Asterix. He was somewhat of a nationalist. His license got pulled and the comics got re-released in the normal format. Those were two different things.

Right, are you younger and far removed from the experience of a German reading this comic soon after WW2? Those were the Germans who did not like this comic.
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