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Albert Uderzo has died

theguardian.com

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Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#81

Post by felixfbecker »

cuspycode wrote: post #28
jacquesm wrote: post #6

Uderzo (and Goscinny, his partner in crime) are childhood heroes of mine, together with Franquin and all the other stripmakers they slowly got me into reading more substantial stuff. Supberb sense of humor and tons of tricks that you'd only appreciate if you read them again at a later age. Naive? Me? ;) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DY83gwMW4AARkVP?format=jpg

As a young child I learned more about ancient European history from Asterix than I did at school. Of course a lot of it was plain fiction, but the historical references made imprints on me, and it wasn't hard to separate that from the fiction, as I grew older. So I thank you Uderzo (and Goscinny) for bringing that education into my life.

Dito. I picked Latin in 5th-9th grade over French and Spanish only because I was so intrigued about ancient Rome and Latin from Asterix. Still remember visiting Rome for the first time in 10th grade. It felt surreal.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#82

Post by pvaldes »

mikepurvis wrote: post #52
conradfr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean Asterix is also slightly incorrect and insensitive about a lot of European people ... and we love it.

There are a few bits of Asterix that are pretty problematic, too, for example the depiction of the African pirate. YMMV, but for me it's a small enough piece that it's worthwhile just talking it over with my kids (vs something like Dr. Seuss's "If I Ran The Zoo", which probably belongs in the dustbin of history, along with Song of the South and everything else that really isn't worth it at this point). https://www.ny…

The authors are mocking of caribbean pirates, not of black people. The character speaks with a thick caribbean accent and is a stereotype of a strong and dumb man in a multiracial team that acts by greed (and are punished again and again for that). Is not problematic at all. I've always seen him as a Latino character in fact.

There are thousands of other strong, brutish, malevolent, greedy or dumb-as-bricks white characters in Asterix also. The main antagonists are almost invariably white. They mock of almost any white stereotype and made fun of almost each european country and culture.

...But they don't trash it or are disrespectful. The histories always include positive characters ambassadors of those cultures, friends or relatives, that get in trouble and ally with the main characters to solve the problem together. They are treated always by Asterix as equals without hesitation, with one bold exception: A black woman.

In Asterix and Cleopatra the main characters are sent in a mission to help an african old friend in trouble and the druid goes also (to learn about some discoveries of african people). The friend is depicted as smart, hard worker and educated (architect chief). Another main character in the comic is Cleopatra, depicted as a beauty, very sophisticated and well bred government in charge, their main flaw is being whimsical. This is one of the few characters that is depicted not as equal, but over the main male characters, in an upper class.

And this comic was released in 1963. If there is something that Asterix isn't, is racist.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#84

Post by xaxsacsdaffbnk »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #30
tombert wrote: post #8

The Asterix comics really never caught on in the US, so I sadly have not read any of them, but multiple people that I respect have told me that I really need to check them out. To someone who is almost completely unfamiliar with the material, what would be a good place to start?

The best ones are: Asterix and Cleopatra Asterix The Legionary Asterix in Britain I really wouldn't rate any of those three higher than the others, although Cleopatra the art is probably the best (also I believe in the opinion of people with more developed aesthetic sense than mine). The Britain one might be slightly colored by my nostalgia in that case, it was a favorite from my youth. There are some others that are…

Asterix the Gaul contains some of my favorite scenes.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#85

Post by pvaldes »

jordigh wrote: post #65
conradfr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.

> no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.

Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#86

Post by andrepd »

phtrivier wrote: post #32
bvandewalle wrote: post #19

I spent hours of my childhood reading Asterix, Tintin and Gaston [0]. Each had an amazing slightly different universe. Now living in the US it always amazes me how different the Comics culture over here is. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_(comics)

Ever read Oumpah-Pah (the probably slighly incorrect and insensitive native american character) from their beginning ? https://www.bedetheque.com/BD-Oumpah-Pah-Tome-1-Oumpah-Pah-l...

They were different times.

Tintin is rather fascinating in that regard, in that the first 3 albums at least are egregiously incorrect caricatures of russia/africa/america with a decidedly colonialist, white supermacist, paternalist bent (very real, inarguably so, take a read yourself). A product of being literally ordered by an ultraconservative catholic priest. At a certain point in his life, Hergé (the author) met what would become a close friend (the basis of the character Chang in the albums). This caused such a wild shift in his worldview that the albums shifted from being these oversimplified caricatures of "inferior nations" to being one of the most thoroughly well-researched and eclectic comic book series/universes of all time.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#87

Post by solstice »

Erwin wrote: post #53
DanielleMolloy wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duck comics are quite popular in Europe too and Carl Barks is honored, but I’d say he is not comparable to Uderzo / Goscinny. You could claim that Don Rosa is comparable though (looking at historical / cultural references, dedication to detail and effort that went into each panel). Can’t recommend „The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck“ enough.

Europe produced huge amounts of Disney universe comics, which apparently there was not enough market for in USA. This happened in 12+ countries but oddly not UK. There are 500+ (!) books in the series that have been coming out since 1950s, in A5 pocket format and with 250 comic pages. Most have been written in Italy the translated. They are so European that I cannot even find an English wikipedia page for them but he…

In German they are called Lustiges Taschenbuch and have been a fixture of most kids' rooms at least since the 80s

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#88

Post by jordigh »

pvaldes wrote: post #85
jordigh wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.

Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.

No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign.

There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtful stereotypes.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#89

Post by richardw »

I found an abandoned Asterix in a dump in my apartment block as a child in around 1984. My mother discovered it and loved them. Getting one was a very special treat, even more so in hindsight. I still have many and will read them with my daughter. Thank you Goscinny and Uderzo.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#90

Post by copperx »

jordigh wrote: post #69
shaneos wrote: post #11

I read all of them over and over again as a child, then one more full reading in my 20s. They were even better as an adult. One of the oddities is that the names in English are actually much funnier than the original French names, e.g. Unhygienix the fishmonger, Getafix the druid, Fullyautomatix who makes the weapons. These two authors brought so many hours, days and years of joy. A life well lived

I used to read them in Spanish in Mexico, and I'm sad to say the early Spanish translations were pretty awful. A lot of them were done by Spaniards that apparently did not understand the puns, so they would just repeat the French names without offering any kind of translation. A lot of other jokes were translated without being apparently understood to the point where it was completely nonsensical in Spanish. It wasn'…

I have the entire Asterix collection in Spanish (perhaps the most prized inheritance my mother left me), and I don't think the translations are as bad as you say they are.

Do you have an example of a French or English pun or a name that got lost in the Spanish translation?

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