Albert Uderzo has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#101

Post by lonelappde » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 2:17 AM UTC

JD557 wrote: post #56

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that right there is worth another year's donation, although I have to say how is it even possible - surely these aren't out of copyright?

I'm not sure if this is the case here, but IIRC, the internet archive is considered a library, which grants them some special rights regarding copyright. I believe that's the reason that allows them to host arcade ROMs as well.

That's not true. There is no special blanket copyright exemption for libraries (equivalent, everything is a library).

The exemption is only for making backup copies of circulating materials.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/108

Archive.org only serves things that copyright holders haven't demanded they remove. Some things they "lend" out to one person at a time using streaming technology, so it's the users fault if they copy it, same as with Blockbuster videotapes.

Their arcade ROMs at abandonware or streamed.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#102

Post by fruffy » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 2:47 AM UTC

conradfr wrote: post #55

mikepurvis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few bits of Asterix that are pretty problematic, too, for example the depiction of the African pirate. YMMV, but for me it's a small enough piece that it's worthwhile just talking it over with my kids (vs something like Dr. Seuss's "If I Ran The Zoo", which probably belongs in the dustbin of history, along with Song of the South and everything else that really isn't worth it at this point). https://www.ny…

Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.

>or at least a very us-centric view

Exactly. Also the black characters in Asterix were not "black", they were Numidians or Nubians. They were characters with agency like any other, the Mansion of Gods comic is the best example.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#103

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 2:57 AM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #88

pvaldes wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.

No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtf…

There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty...

Is just a parody. Please calm yourself.

I'm really tired of this dark soup of neopuritanism, SJW and porcelain people. By the way, who are you to tell me how I must to draw an human figure?. Has returned Maoism or Degenerate art? Do you know what other artists create images depicting black people with big lips and different types of hair ornaments? All african artists.

If you don't like the comics, just don't read it. The solution is really simple.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#104

Post by jordigh » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:14 AM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #103

jordigh wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtf…

There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup…

Does a racist caricature exist? Does racism itself exist? If it does, what does it look like?

If you don't think the pickaninny or the mammy are racist, I have no idea what you think racism looks like.

The pickaninny and the mammy were part of minstrel shows and lots of other pernicious hurtful portrayals. Nobody has ever complained about the other characters in Astérix because there is no history of black people systematically enslaving whites and then making ridiculous shows and cartoons about the enslaved whites. Of course white people aren't offended by how white people draw themselves.

Uderzo didn't even invent the style in which he drew black people. He's just copying the same racist caricatures that existed long before he did.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#105

Post by jordigh » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:22 AM UTC

fruffy wrote: post #68

jordigh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone loved it. Astérix and the Goths was an early and very unfavourable depiction of the Germans as militaristic and ruthless, written with WW2 still fresh in mind. The Germans did not like this early strip. Goscinny and Uderzo seemed to regret this early portrayal, as Goths in latter Astérix strips were depicted more sympathetically. My point here is that "political correctness" has a point. Of course most E…

That's funny, I am German and that comic book was always one of my favourites. I never made the connection that it was supposed to be demeaning or that there was a controversy around it. I always took it as being cheeky like Asterix in Britain.

Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#106

Post by DoreenMichele » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 3:29 AM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #104

pvaldes wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup…

Does a racist caricature exist? Does racism itself exist? If it does, what does it look like? If you don't think the pickaninny or the mammy are racist, I have no idea what you think racism looks like. The pickaninny and the mammy were part of minstrel shows and lots of other pernicious hurtful portrayals. Nobody has ever complained about the other characters in Astérix because there is no history of black people sys…

I'm sorry for what you have been through, are still going through and all that.

I spent some years homeless and I post as openly female on HN, which at least historically was overwhelmingly male.

I do my best to educate people here (about homelessness, being a woman online, etc) and I try to keep it as conversational as possible. People who want to be good and want to see themselves as good don't react well to being attacked and accused. It tends to close minds and, with it, doors.

I'm not trying to attack you nor criticize you. I'm hoping to empower you with a better methodology.

Long experience tells me you probably won't see it that way. I don't plan to argue with you about the choice I've made to comment here.

Here's wishing you fair winds for your journey going forward.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#107

Post by bvandewalle » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 6:23 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #60

bvandewalle wrote: post #19

I spent hours of my childhood reading Asterix, Tintin and Gaston [0]. Each had an amazing slightly different universe. Now living in the US it always amazes me how different the Comics culture over here is. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_(comics)

With Gaston one of the neat bits was that every signature at the bottom of a panel was a gag in its own right. No two were alike.

Ah you are right, the Franquin signature was something to look forward to!

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#108

Post by brnt » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 7:38 AM UTC

conradfr wrote: post #54

basementcat wrote: post #20

From the 12 Tasks of Asterix: The Place That Sends You Mad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtEkUmYecnk

A brilliant parody of the French administration. "Le laissez-passer A-38" is still a pop culture reference.

Took a French course at academie francaise when I just moved to France. When we as matter of exercise had to describe our experience so far in France I played this video instead. All including the teacher had painful looks of recognition ;)

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#109

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

ggambetta wrote: post #62

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best ones are: Asterix and Cleopatra Asterix The Legionary Asterix in Britain I really wouldn't rate any of those three higher than the others, although Cleopatra the art is probably the best (also I believe in the opinion of people with more developed aesthetic sense than mine). The Britain one might be slightly colored by my nostalgia in that case, it was a favorite from my youth. There are some others that are…

Obélix and Company is pure genius.

that's true, but by the time I read it I was probably more into Tintin.

on edit: which might mean more of my opinion is caused by nostalgia than I thought.

Re: Albert Uderzo has died

#110

Post by throwaway5466 » Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 9:41 AM UTC

jordigh wrote: post #65

conradfr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.

> no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.

I don't see why European artists should self-censor so as not to hurt the sensibilities of Americans just because your country was built on slavery and genocide. Sort out your wounds yourselves and let us live.

(For the record, there are plenty of "black" characters (Numids, Nubians etc.) in Asterix and Baba is the only one with his characteristic. Many of the others are depicted favorably, as the other commenter said)