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Re: undefined

#211

Post by HarryHirsch »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #151
Alex3917 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA approved emergency expanded access for inhaled nitric oxide a couple days ago, which has the same mechanism of action as garlic and beet root. There is actually a plausible mechanism of action there, and a bunch of in vitro research.

Post a link because I right now I have no reason to believe you.

He probably means this: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/medtech/fda-expands-access-to-...

But that has nothing to do with HIV, neither do garlic and beetroot have anything to do with nitric oxide.

Re: undefined

#212

Post by tyingq »

fabian2k wrote: post #22

I wasn't able to find a reliable source on short notice, but the ones I found indicate a therapeutic index of around 4-8 for chloroquine. The therapeutic index is the ratio between the dose that is effective and the lethal dose. So in this case if you take 4-8 times the dose that actually works you're in the range where it could kill you. I'd be really interested in more robust sources on this. But from the bits I've…

The man and his wife took it in the form of aquarium cleaner. I imagine it's quite hard to translate that form into an actual dose. See http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate

Re: undefined

#213

Post by a_tractor »

rbanffy wrote: post #163
raarts wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to: offend, be misinterpreted or misunderstood, never say a word. The world is full of dumb, mean and easily offended people to which "words matter".

In this case, Trump's endorsement of a drug clearly mattered.

He isn't even close to the only one "endorsing" this drug. Not even close.

Re: undefined

#214

Post by bigyikes »

rbanffy wrote: post #176
blunte wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". It's a nice tagline, but the metrics for which it applies are narrowing rapidly. But still, let this be a lesson to those who would follow bad leaders to their own demise; or rather, let it be a lesson to their offspring who watch them follow the bad leaders. I suspect humanity follows cycles of enlightenment, complacency, and self-destructi…

> I'm inclined to argue about the title "most powerful nation on this planet". Richest underdeveloped country? Most powerful failed state?

We can debate the originally proposed title, but failed state? Come on.

Re: undefined

#215

Post by et2o »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #161
ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an oversimplification. The amount for an overdose is only around 3X a regular dose (2g vs 600mg) In contrast, most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose.

most drugs for which you overdose need to be at much higher dosage multiples compared to the prescribed dose Perhaps for over the counter medication. This statement is false when we consider drugs requiring a prescription especially those used mainly in acute care or hospital situation. There are all sorts of medications in that class for which a double dose will straight up kill you. In discussing such situations we…

Actually there is extremely weak to none evidence for its efficacy in COVID. One terrible French clinical trial.

Re: undefined

#216

Post by mirimir »

hnburnsy wrote: post #186
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

There's an important detail missing: the dose.

I gather that the therapeutic dose is on the order of 500 mg/day. So did they eat 10x that, 100x that, or what?

Re: undefined

#217

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

hnburnsy wrote: post #186
baxtr wrote: post #2

The repeated recommendation to use a drug which has not been properly tested by the president of the most powerful nation on this planet seems inappropriate to me.

They didn't take the drug, they took an aquarium cleaner... http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate >A man has died and his wife is under critical care after the couple, both in their 60s, ingested chloroquine phosphate, an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks. Within thirty minutes of ingestion, the couple experienced immediate effects requiring admittance to a nearby Banner Health…

Apparently chloroquine phosphate is the right drug and it's a synonym for chloroquine the drug. https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-8633/chloroquine-oral/det...

Also all the wikipedia references are about chloroquine phosphate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloroquine#References

Looks like they did take the right drug, but OD'd or something.

Re: undefined

#218

Post by a_tractor »

_jal wrote: post #38
npmaile wrote: post #9

Why not link directly to the banner health page? This article seems to be needlessly political given the drop of Trump's name. I'd gladly dive into an article about the president's rhetoric and its effects on public health, but this story is better served by the linked article ( http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate ) which also explains how the couple may have aquired such a dangerous chemical, whic…

"Needlessly?" When the authority figure with the biggest microphone in the country starts promoting off-label drug use in response to a national emergency? Just stop.

>starts promoting off-label drug use in response to a national emergency

Who did that, and when? Are you saying Trump told people to go buy fish cleaning supplies? You are being ridiculous.

Why don't you "just stop"?

Re: undefined

#219

Post by gulli1010 »

post_below wrote: post #28

A bit more info: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-in... Also happening in Nigeria: https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/23/headlines/two_nigeria... Note that there doesn't appear to be any evidence yet that chloroquine is effective in COVID-19 treatment. So far it has been studied only for other types of coronavirus.

It is the standard course of treatment in Belgium and other European countries

https://epidemio.wiv-isp.be/ID/Documents/Covid19/COVID-19_In...

Re: undefined

#220

Post by anigbrowl »

gwright wrote: post #192
anigbrowl wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The President's whole brand is that he knows more than the experts. I'm listening to him right now, live, saying 'the doctors re telling us we have to shut down the whole world, they want to shut it down for years, but you can't let the cure be worse than the problem.' He's talking complete nonsense about quarantine and how bad it is to close the stock exchange while saying the quarantine is a bigger problem than the…

Hard to understand your point. It seems quite obvious to me that you can't shut down the world economy for any length of time without introducing enormous amounts of collateral damage (i.e. deaths). What is nonsense about that?

I think you understand my point just fine.
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