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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

401–410 of 430 posts

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a few random points to consider: - Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam all in much warmer climate. - hot spots in Italy and Japan are likewise in the northern region: Lombardy in Italy and Hokkaido in Japan. - wearing masks during a global pandemic isn't apparently as fashionable in Japan. - many Japanese elderly, or over 30K per year, die unnoticed in solitude. so it might take a while to catch up. But on the othe…

And even _in_ China, cases per capita are not that high (lower than most of Western Europe). In _Wuhan_ is another matter, of course.

Assuming China is not lying which is definitely up for debate.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#402
post #214
post #78

Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…

Taiwan had a much more comprehensive and thorough strategy, considering their threat was much higher due to close economic ties and travel with China. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-49178314

I don't think the model in the paper accurately reflects the recent cross-strait relations. China already closed the border to Taiwan several months ago to retaliate Taiwan's arm purchases from the U.S, which brought nearly two months to handles the situation for Tsai. Though, Taiwan's response still has been much better than any other Western countries which already had three months to prepare against the situation while did absolutely nothing for the period.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, https://i.imgur.com/ekiFd9S.png You will see that the largest outbreaks occur at the same temperature gradients

So do most of the major cities in the world. That's a hell of a confounding variable.

did you read the paper, or just comment of the cuff?

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#404
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made a mistake. I was reading about a study yesterday trying to show that stomach problems were a common symptom for people with coronavirus. This had me thinking "asymptomatic" meant showing irregular symptoms, when it is showing no symptoms. That said, if you are asymptotic you aren't coughing or sneezing, so I'm unsure of how helpful a mask would be.

Yes, you are making a lot of mistakes. No, on the contrary, both studies encourage the use of masks. And it's totally beyond me why you're so bent on distorting the fact and trying to get that dangerous message of discouraging the use of masks. Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle: > In this population, there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer…

>Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle

I cut there for brevity, as it clearly means "the hand sanitizer and facemask usage outlined and tested in the study should be encouraged." You can't ignore everything else in the paper and say they are advocating everyone wears a mask.

With the second study, even what you quote supports my position. "After symptom onset" means "when sick."

>especially in this season, so there could be people who think they just have pollen allergies while in reality they are symptomatic carriers of SARS-CoV-2

If you are coughing or sneezing, you should be wearing a mask.

>If not, just stop, please.

So far, you have posted two articles that support my claim, and made references to various statistics implying face mask usage is responsible for the good stats. I am not spouting nonsense that will kill people, this is the WHO's position.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#405
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Western countries hand-shaking is limited almost exclusively to business I can't speak for all Western countries, but in the US I shake hands with every new person I meet, whether in a professional or social settings. I'll also shake hands as a greeting for acquaintances I'm not close with. (As opposed to a hug for close acquaintances.)

Which city? This is not at all ordinary in my experience (at least in social settings - it’s normal in business settings).

Might be an age/generational thing. At least my generation (20s and 30s) it’s definitely not commonly done outside of formal business meetings.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#406
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you are making a lot of mistakes. No, on the contrary, both studies encourage the use of masks. And it's totally beyond me why you're so bent on distorting the fact and trying to get that dangerous message of discouraging the use of masks. Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle: > In this population, there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer…

>Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle I cut there for brevity, as it clearly means "the hand sanitizer and facemask usage outlined and tested in the study should be encouraged." You can't ignore everything else in the paper and say they are advocating everyone wears a mask. With the second study, even what you quote supports my position. "After symptom onset" mean…

Are you being thick on purpose?

You are lying, you know you are lying, and you keep lying.

1. And you can't ignore the context and the conclusion of the study and cherry pick half sentences. What a convenient "brevity" that is. They do encourage use of masks in their limited context. Yes they don't say everyone, they say contagious people, and as I explained to 10 times already, in the context of a disease with asymptomatic spread, the requirement translates to everyone.

And for the nth time, mask isn't a substitute for hygiene and social distancing (which apparently is your faulty understanding because you keep bringing it up), it is complementary and effective countermeasure.

What part of this is so hard to understand?

2. "After symptom onset" is the contagious period for flu. For SARS-CoV-2, it starts before symptom onset. Meaning potentially everyone, again.

So no, both studies do encourage the use of masks for everyone.

And then there are indisputable, order of magnitude differences in infection rate numbers between countries that use and don't use masks --which you're also conveniently but consistently silent about. Try going to Japan and telling people that masks don't work ---but also tell them that US discouraged its people from using masks and has an infection spread rate of 35% with over 38000 infected people and nearly 400 deaths in a shorter timespan. See the reaction you get. Actually, no, I take it back, please don't ever come to Japan. Please stay wherever you are, we don't want people like you.

You are bent on harming yourself and people around you, and I'm done talking to you. The last thing I am going to say to you is: you are a disgrace and a harmful element to your society, to this world, and I am happy that at least my country is giving the right directions, doing the right things and that mine is a society where people like you get the reaction that they deserve.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. The U.S. response is absurd. I went grocery shopping the other day, and despite clear evidence of panic (empty shelves, hurried shoppers, long lines), but not a single person wore a mask. Somehow, everyone is too scared to go to work, but not scared enough to wear a mask. We're on course for the worst depression in history because we don't…

> went grocery shopping the other day, and despite clear evidence of panic (empty shelves, hurried shoppers, long lines), but not a single person wore a mask. That means nobody knew they were sick and went shopping anyway. Which is good. Many people in the US think masks are like gas masks, used to prevent dangerous things from getting in your body. Masks are used to prevent people from spreading a disease, and you s…

It also means nobody who was sick but didn't know was wearing a mask that would have helped limit others' exposure. Which is kind of relevant here, where you are infectious to others for days before you feel sick.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But breathing through a vacuum cleaner bag is too hard. Still, it might work if you did a radical pleat. I'll try it. As I recall, two layers of cotton t-shirt is the best option.

That would be awesome but I think you meant a "radial" pleat.

Huh. I meant radical in the sense of large surface area. And I was thinking ~cylindrical.

But radial is a great idea. And as soon as I started playing with paper, the ancient muscle memory of folding filter paper came back to me.

Edit: OK, I used filter paper from a shop vac, 20 cm wide by 30 cm high, with six faces triangular faces on the top and bottom, and eight faces on the sides. The ends of the faces on each side are sewed together, with an elastic strap connecting them. So the base is a diamond, ~18 cm wide and ~12 high. There's cloth edging on the top and bottom, and a cloth-wrapped 1 cm x 5 cm strip of aluminum edging to seal the top of the nose.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#410
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle I cut there for brevity, as it clearly means "the hand sanitizer and facemask usage outlined and tested in the study should be encouraged." You can't ignore everything else in the paper and say they are advocating everyone wears a mask. With the second study, even what you quote supports my position. "After symptom onset" mean…

Are you being thick on purpose? You are lying, you know you are lying, and you keep lying. 1. And you can't ignore the context and the conclusion of the study and cherry pick half sentences. What a convenient "brevity" that is. They do encourage use of masks in their limited context. Yes they don't say everyone, they say contagious people, and as I explained to 10 times already, in the context of a disease with asymp…

>You are lying, you know you are lying, and you keep lying

I am not. You are being overly passionate and stating things are obvious facts without sufficient data. Even the prevalence of asymptomatic spreading is unclear right now.

>And you can't ignore the context and the conclusion of the study and cherry pick half sentences

I didn't ignore it, a studies recommendation is meaningless without the experimental results. I commented on the results. Similarly, you don't need the part I omitted to say...

>in the context of a disease with asymptomatic spread, the requirement translates to everyone.

This is not how studies work. You can't use this to assume long term use of masks by those without symptoms is beneficial. That kind of use may have unaccounted risks.

>And for the nth time, mask isn't a substitute for hygiene and social distancing (which apparently is your faulty understanding because you keep bringing it up),

I have no idea what part of my last post you think brought this up, the quotes from the studies? At no point have I tried to claim masks were a substitute for hygiene or social distancing, I don't know what led you to that idea.

>What part of this is so hard to understand?

The part where you attack something I didn't say is confusing.

>--but also tell them that US discourage their people from using masks and has an infection spread rate of 35% with over 30000 infected people and nearly 400 deaths in a shorter timespan.

It's a bit hard to talk with someone who accuses me of "cherry picking" data and then makes these random comparisons that ignore most of the world and any other potential factors.

>The last thing I am going to say to you is: you are a disgrace and a harmful element to your society, to this world,

All for following the recommendations of organizations like the WHO. Have a nice day, I hope you are fortunate enough to stay healthy, and remember to properly dispose of your masks after use.

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