Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can see parents and kids going together to play in parks with no care whatsoever. I don’t know if they have no care. They’ve just weighed the horror of staying in their home with a kid for days on end against their chances of getting infected and chosen what makes sense for them.
So they decide to risk their own and their childrens lives as well as countless others just because they cannot stand their children for more than a couple of hours. Very responsible.
Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
391–400 of 430 posts
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#392Some days ago, I found this comment from someone living in Japan. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22605657
I live in Lombardy, and I can assure you that the conditions to meet in order to get tested are the same. Me and my three flatmates had 37-39 °C for some days, including a very bad cough. We called the emergency number, and they said that they could test us only in case of prolonged temperature and/or respiratory problems. This happened like 2-3 weeks ago, and considering the current state of the national health serv…
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
I cannot for the life of me understand why we aren't turning every available textile mill into mask manufacturers right now. It should be trivial to do and clothes aren't a critical item. I'm sure most countries have planned something like this as it's a common need during major wars. We're basically saying that since it's not 100% effective, so it's not worth it. Meanwhile, neither is social distancing, but that's s…
> Meanwhile, neither is social distancing It's effective if you do it right.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it will turn that wearing masks has a much bigger effect than anticipated. (I suppose that's a form of social distancing.)
Imagine if the whole pandemic could have been prevented if we just manufactured masks at a higher rate and everyone wore them. Now even hospitals are running out.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In Western countries hand-shaking is limited almost exclusively to business I can't speak for all Western countries, but in the US I shake hands with every new person I meet, whether in a professional or social settings. I'll also shake hands as a greeting for acquaintances I'm not close with. (As opposed to a hug for close acquaintances.)
Which city? This is not at all ordinary in my experience (at least in social settings - it’s normal in business settings).
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You can also read a few studies The first study only advocated wearing a mask when sick,or within three feet of someone who was sick, and concluded >there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer or face masks over targeted education on overall rates of URIs, but mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission And from the second >facemasks seemed to prevent household transmission of in…
I made a mistake. I was reading about a study yesterday trying to show that stomach problems were a common symptom for people with coronavirus. This had me thinking "asymptomatic" meant showing irregular symptoms, when it is showing no symptoms. That said, if you are asymptotic you aren't coughing or sneezing, so I'm unsure of how helpful a mask would be.
Go back the first study and read the full sentence that you conveniently cut in the middle:
> In this population, there was no detectable additional benefit of hand sanitizer or face masks over targeted education on overall rates of URIs, but mask wearing was associated with reduced secondary transmission and should be encouraged during outbreak situations.
See the part about secondary transmission which you deleted? Also remember that unlike in that study (which was conducted in households with a known sick patient), in reality, there are sick people (both symptomatic and asymptomatic) whom you don't know in advance that they're sick and do not wear masks --which is something you can't fix by education and instead have to implement mass quarantine because now everything could be infectious and people have to avoid everything.
Second study:
> In conclusion, our results suggest that hand hygiene and facemasks can reduce influenza virus transmission if implemented early after symptom onset in an index patient.
And make sure you also read the word influenza, and remember that with COVID-19, the main driver is asymptomatic cases by far. Which means everyone should wear a mask.
> Aren't masks common in both South Korea and China?
Yes, masks are common in China and South Korea now, which is reflected in their low transmission rates: China 0.06%, South Korea: 2.0%. Compare that to 35% in US. Initial outbreaks in China and South Korea were driven by people not using masks. The spread rates plummeted after the implementation of countermeasures which include, surprise, use of masks by everyone!
> That said, if you are asymptotic you aren't coughing or sneezing, so I'm unsure of how helpful a mask would be.
Coughing isn't the only way people spread water droplets ---people do that just by talking. Virus is also carried in aerosol that remain in the air for longer periods. Coronavirus isn't the only thing that cause sneezing or coughing (especially in this season, so there could be people who think they just have pollen allergies while in reality they are symptomatic carriers of SARS-CoV-2). And regardless, it obviously is better than nothing. Yes, it's not going to be 100% effective, but even a 1% difference will be the difference between life and death for some people in your community.
Really, what are you trying to achieve by pushing this nonsense? If all people in the US don't start using masks already, they won't be able to achieve the success in suppressing the spread rates seen in Japan, China, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong (all are countries where mask usage by everyone is high) within the same time frame. The growth will be stronger, there will be far more sick people and more and more fatalities. Is this what you want? If not, just stop, please, and start acting responsible as a member of your community. Please.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
There were 30 or so cases before the Shincheonji contagion, in which, yes, one cult member single-handedly tripled the number of cases in one day. But at the usual 33% per day intra-country contagion rate, even single-handedly tripling the number of cases only moves the calendar forward by about 4 days. I do agree that Japan probably has diagnosed a much smaller proportion of cases.
IIRC, there were no new case or low single digit cases for almost a full week before the ShinCheonJi outbreak, after which the number of cases increased to three digits new cases per day.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#398Not so surprising. You have also the same outliers with Hong Kong and Taiwan. - In Japan, people naturally respect social distancing. Touching someone is considered rude, everyone bows instead of shaking hands and nobody kiss. - Almost everybody wear mask when they are sick to avoid contaminating others. They do that since way before Cornavirus and on voluntary based. - Washing hands is common, being clean (bath cult…
"- Last but probably very relevant: they have a completely different place of the elders in society. In Japan, the elders often live alone, sustain their life by themselves: it's a matter of proud. Even contact with their own kids is often sparse. Meaning, probably also lower risk of infection. " The elderly in Japan are extremely active and are very well socialized with other elderly thanks to public transportation…
And that makes the situation better, especially if you compare to country like Italy where a huge majority of kids still live with their parents and grand parents, potentially can infecting them.
https://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/6413.jpeg
If social distance and mask works in public space, it does not at home.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#399I'll offer one hypothesis and a quick explanation. Iodine. The Japaese have a high iodine content in their diet. I'm taking 10x the US RDA. Some have suggested this is the reason for lower breast cancer rates there (no time to cover all that here and now). I read about Iodine years ago, and followed some doctors suggestions that it can help asthma. My asthma is effectively gone and my last PFT showed my lungs functio…
That's an interesting theory I hadn't heard before. I've read about iodine in seaweed and seafood, part of common diet in Japan; and how iodine influences thyroid hormones. Just started searching on the role and effect of iodine in the body - indeed, it seems to be fundamental in fetal development and cell regeneration (its suppression, apoptosis); the endocrine system, metabolism, repiratory, immunity.. I never knew…
There was one cool study that showed the connection between kelp and reduced incidence of breast cancer. It was based on Japanese women whose cancer rates shoot up when the move to the US. The funny part for me was at the end, where they suggest that people don't start eating a lot of kelp because of the high iodine content which has these negative effects. They then proposed further study to see what was in the kelp that prevented cancer. I was just... I dunno. SMH.
Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?
#400I'll offer one hypothesis and a quick explanation. Iodine. The Japaese have a high iodine content in their diet. I'm taking 10x the US RDA. Some have suggested this is the reason for lower breast cancer rates there (no time to cover all that here and now). I read about Iodine years ago, and followed some doctors suggestions that it can help asthma. My asthma is effectively gone and my last PFT showed my lungs functio…
That's an interesting theory I hadn't heard before. I've read about iodine in seaweed and seafood, part of common diet in Japan; and how iodine influences thyroid hormones. Just started searching on the role and effect of iodine in the body - indeed, it seems to be fundamental in fetal development and cell regeneration (its suppression, apoptosis); the endocrine system, metabolism, repiratory, immunity.. I never knew…
Indeed, once you see how much it affects there is danger of sounding like some moron beating the same drum. Every time someone has any of those issues: "did you look into iodine?"
Another pet theory of mine is that the thyroid hormones are not signaling molecules, but rather the bodies storage place for iodine atoms. They are indeed named T1, T2, T3, and T4 based on the number of iodine atoms in the molecule.