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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

41–50 of 430 posts

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extreme testing policies wouldn’t hide exponential growth - if it is growing exponentially, you’d expect the number of people meeting the criteria to also grow exponentially.

It wouldn't hide it FOR LONG. In a month, we'll know which hypothesis was correct.

It wouldn't hide it at all. Shifting an exponential curve gives you another exponential curve.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#42
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterclaim is that Japan has an unusually high per capita number of ICU beds.

This appears to be true, it is #1 in hospital beds (not the same as ICU beds, but should be correlated) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_...

Note: that article also lists number of ICU beds per 100000 population, and it seems that it's not that highly correlated. Turkey has the most ICU beds.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#43
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the whole pandemic could have been prevented if we just manufactured masks at a higher rate and everyone wore them. Now even hospitals are running out.

I cannot for the life of me understand why we aren't turning every available textile mill into mask manufacturers right now. It should be trivial to do and clothes aren't a critical item. I'm sure most countries have planned something like this as it's a common need during major wars. We're basically saying that since it's not 100% effective, so it's not worth it. Meanwhile, neither is social distancing, but that's s…

> Meanwhile, neither is social distancing

It's effective if you do it right.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#44
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterclaim is that Japan has an unusually high per capita number of ICU beds.

This appears to be true, it is #1 in hospital beds (not the same as ICU beds, but should be correlated) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_...

> but should be correlated

It's not, as shown by the very link you posted. ICU beds are a separate column in that table. Japan only has ~7.3/100k.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#45
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot for the life of me understand why we aren't turning every available textile mill into mask manufacturers right now. It should be trivial to do and clothes aren't a critical item. I'm sure most countries have planned something like this as it's a common need during major wars. We're basically saying that since it's not 100% effective, so it's not worth it. Meanwhile, neither is social distancing, but that's s…

Because different environments yield different behavior. Just like in finance or business. I feel like we've grown accustomed to a world where money is readily available (low interest rates), there's relative peace/safety, little trade friction, and we can ship things around the world cheaply. Maybe we need to let the pendulum swing back a bit and do a little more manufacturing in the US? The problem is that it proba…

> I do, on the other hand, think the last few years might be peak globalization.

Peak globalisation, and likely peak capitalism too. Protectionism is the one Trump policy I agree with.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#46
post #5

> New tests that produce produce results in 10-15 minutes are becoming available, but even with the improved tech, under the current policy a test will only be administered in the most extreme circumstances, when people have had a fever for four days or more . This is an important factor that may indicate this "outlier" is more of a delay, rather than a reality of some exception. As a resident, I'm quite concerned ab…

I spent some time in Japan for work and was always amazed how many people had face masks on (even when there is no pandemic) and the prevalent of wearing gloves (driving etc). With my limited time there it seemed to be one of the most proactively sanitary cultures I’ve seen. Also it seemed to me that at business meetings generally people bow instead of shaking hands. And I wonder if this reflects the general approach…

You can’t find masks anywhere since more than a month. Few people wear them (I would say about 30%). Granted, people have less physical contact.

The real reason for the low number of cases is the lack of tests. I’ve spoken today with multiple Japanese friends and other residents, all think the government is lying and hiding it to save the Olympics. We will see the truth in a month...

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't hide it FOR LONG. In a month, we'll know which hypothesis was correct.

It wouldn't hide it at all. Shifting an exponential curve gives you another exponential curve.

This is only true over the reals, not over integers. People are integers.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#48
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it will turn that wearing masks has a much bigger effect than anticipated. (I suppose that's a form of social distancing.)

WHO: * wearing mask does nothing and... * workers desperately need mask this is the problem when you lie to your audience to achieve some end. Your message not only gets disregarded but you don't actually achieve what you were trying to achieve with your lie in the first place. We are all lucky to have Tedros as our one-world doctor.

I think the masks make the most difference when the sick people wear them, which is probably happening in Japan I guess.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#49
post #5

> New tests that produce produce results in 10-15 minutes are becoming available, but even with the improved tech, under the current policy a test will only be administered in the most extreme circumstances, when people have had a fever for four days or more . This is an important factor that may indicate this "outlier" is more of a delay, rather than a reality of some exception. As a resident, I'm quite concerned ab…

Extreme testing policies wouldn’t hide exponential growth - if it is growing exponentially, you’d expect the number of people meeting the criteria to also grow exponentially.

If the number of tests administered is the limiting factor, and if you only increase the number of tests linearly in time, then case numbers would grow linear as well.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#50
In Japan, people wear masks so they don't spread their germs. In the US, people want to wear masks to avoid other's germs. Totally different mindset. And in the US we are being discouraged from wearing masks because they don't block the virus from going in even though they could be keeping asymptomatic people from spreading.

Well I feel duly embarrassed for not thinking that way earlier. Just ordered some cotton masks.

I'm sure there are other reasons the spread is different in Japan but this is something we can do. Not the disposable ones though.

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