Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43 • Hacker News Board

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#61

Post by leetcrew » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

redis_mlc wrote: post #37

dangus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the US health system is beyond fucked up, but the statements in this comment are dramatization and not accurate on their own without a ton of qualifiers and clarifying statements. “Out of network” doesn’t mean your health insurance plan doesn’t pay for anything. It usually just changes coinsurance rate. Anyone who has a major expensive hospital event while insured will just hit their maximum annual out o…

You're misinformed. What I said is correct.

the part about preexisting conditions is completely wrong since the ACA.

the person who replied to you is wrong about out-of-network services though. they seem to be describing a ppo plan. my high deductible plan is quite clear on the fact that out-of-network is not covered at all. doesn't even count towards the out-of-pocket max.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#62

Post by vidarh » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:23 PM UTC

lidHanteyk wrote: post #14

CPLX wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That math only makes sense if you take the medical industry’s insane pricing model as gospel. If you had a straightforward nationally run healthcare system the math would be way more favorable still.

We know that a good rule of thumb in the USA is that health care costs are roughly twice what they ought to be. So just multiply by two: We could have treated around 238k people.

Much more than twice. The per capita cost (across all Americans, not just those eligible) for Medicare and Medicaid is higher than the healthcare costs of most other developed countries before you even factor in private insurance.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#63

Post by jjoonathan » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:24 PM UTC

alexhutcheson wrote: post #16

The face values on medical bills in the US are like a bizarre joke - to a first approximation, no one ever pays them. Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. It's tougher for people without insurance - my understanding is that you can negotiate with the entity that sent you the bill to get significant reductions, but I don't have first-hand experience doing this.…

Is begging (negotiation without leverage) a remotely reliable move for those without insurance or is it just an excuse dangled by apologists when in fact the reality is that it usually results in a very small discount unless you get the story to go viral?

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#64

Post by tpetry » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

tc313 wrote: post #44

Krokku wrote: post #8

You could buy 0.018 Tomahawk missiles for that or treat 54 people for every Tomahawk missile fired. All of the Tomahawk missiles fired since 2001 would have provided 119.000 people with free Corona treatment. I am thinking that countries with free healthcare care more about keeping their own people healthy than dropping missiles and misery on other countries people.

While your point is valid, it also illustrates how the U.S. subsidizes European entitlement programs by implicitly reducing those countries’ defense spending. If the U.S. were to cut back on defense, European countries would have to cut back on social welfare programs.

Are you trying to say europeans have money to spend on an almost fair medical system because they are spending far less money on military because the USA spends enough to „protect“ the europeans? Because that would sounds like a joke. Europe is spending less money in military because its not entering so many wars or conflicts.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#65

Post by martin_a » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #25

sumofi wrote: post #3

Not having health insurance is not an excuse. In Germany you are required by law to have it.

> In Germany you are required by law to have it. Obama basically made this happen, but the net result was that all of healthy young adults (the kind that least needed insurance) were forced to start paying for insurance to subsidize the unhealthy older adults (or pay a penalty). So basically it was just a disguised tax targeting the young and healthy.

Well, you know, at some time in the future, those "healthy young adults" will be the "unhealthy older adults" and other young people will subsidize them then. That's pretty much how those social insurance systems work.

Maybe Americans are missing something to understand that, but it's not socialism or communism if you actually care about all people in the state, no matter how healthy or old they are.

Maybe Americans will understand one day.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#66

Post by beamatronic » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:25 PM UTC

zamalek wrote: post #28

krapp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there are millions of deaths in the US from this, a return to the status quo seems like the most likely scenario, as people will assume the scope and danger of the pandemic was overblown by the media all along.

Things would stay the same even with millions of deaths. "Socialism is nothing more than communism" and "communism is evil" are two concepts that are deeply embedded here.

Embedded in certain geographic and demographic sectors. Always remember the Republicans have a demographic problem that cannot be overcome long term.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#67

Post by mgkimsal » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

afterburner wrote: post #34

Havoc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. That whole setup is downright cruel & evil. Pretty much guarantees the most vulnerable get fk'd.

But won't you be so proud when you sign up for a health plan! You can exclaim to everyone "well I did my due diligence and I signed up for a great plan! why didn't you??" Meanwhile people in non-US countries are thinking "I don't have to think about any of this shit, at all."

You'll 'sign up' for the only one your employer offers, because so few people ever consider getting direct coverage, partially because... if you have an employer that offers insurance, you can't effectively buy direct (you can't deduct the expense if you're 'eligible' via an employer, whether you take it or not). insane...

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#68

Post by stevespang » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

Hospitals and Emergency rooms are "licking their Chops" and sharpening their teeth $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ at the massive wave of sick people expected . . .

The uninsured are screwed . . . which coincidentally are all those millions standing in unemployment lines right now . . .

Hospital bills are the #1 cause of bankruptcy filing these days . . . go figure.

About 10 years ago I went to hospital emerg. room for shot of antibiotic in my butt, got bill for $2,000. Went and complained and wimpered and they sent me to office way in back of hospital with beastly lady with reputation, known as "the grinder". Took like 12 visits and calls, had to show my IRS tax filing showing I was not making any money, they finally reduced bill to $200.

Interesting that most States Attorney Generals actively arrest contractors and common folk for allegedly "price gouging" during any crisis, but our upstanding "pillars of the community" doctors and lawyers NEVER get visited or arrested for shaking people down everyday.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#69

Post by m_ke » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:26 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #59

xyst wrote: post #43

It’s a shame that the only candidate that wants to tear down this ridiculous health system is getting the boot by the party he is aligned with. The health system in the US is only accessible to those with money. It doesn’t have to be this way. I am not saying socialized healthcare will cure all ailments, but it would definitely be better than the current privatized system.

Medicare for all doesn't give people a choice between private insurance or government insurance. It's a non-starter, i am happy with my insurance like tens of millions of people in the US. Government option gives us a choice proposed by the front runner. Everyone wants to compare us to Canada. Canada gives you a choice and 25% have private insurance. Edit: going to vote me down for just listing facts.

Millions of people are about to lose their "chosen" insurance when they get fired from their jobs.

Re: Total Cost of Her Covid-19 Treatment: $34,927.43

#70

Post by jjoonathan » Sat, Mar 21, 2020, 3:27 PM UTC

afterburner wrote: post #34

Havoc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Everyone with insurance gets insurer-negotiated "discounts" to around ~10% of the listed cost. That whole setup is downright cruel & evil. Pretty much guarantees the most vulnerable get fk'd.

But won't you be so proud when you sign up for a health plan! You can exclaim to everyone "well I did my due diligence and I signed up for a great plan! why didn't you??" Meanwhile people in non-US countries are thinking "I don't have to think about any of this shit, at all."

... and half the time people bragging about the spectacular insurance they found have just fallen for one of those "fake insurance" scams that are now legal again. Sure, you get $1,000,000 per year of coverage -- with a per-incident cap of $1000 buried in the fine print.

And even though fake insurance is cheaper than real insurance in this country, it's not cheaper than real insurance in most single-payer countries, which is just nuts.