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New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

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Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#181

Post by gokhan »

nostromo wrote: post #169
bananabreakfast wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old people are not the only ones dying.

Data from an Italian study: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-tho... Median age is 80.5. That's actually near the life expectancy of an Italian male. 99% of fatalities were among people with a prior illness. About half of the deaths were people suffering from three or more other illnesses. To put it very bluntly, a lot of the folks dying from COVID-19 were already dying. COVID-19 is the straw t…

You might be deadly wrong.

About half of those infected in New York City are under 50

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/nyregion/coronavirus-new-...

...preliminary figures released on Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that adults ages 20 to 44 represent nearly one-third of U.S. coronavirus patients whose ages are known.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-millen...

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#182

Post by mistermann »

dionidium wrote: post #174
mistermann wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be good - the outcome determines if it is good. We do not know the outcome because it lies in the future, but the human mind provides the host such a high resolution image of it that it can easily be mistaken for actual reality if one isn't disciplined.

> It may be good - the outcome determines if it is good. I'm not strongly committed to the argument that it's good. A better word might be "appropriate" or "justified." The point is that this kind of outrage is very different from what we normally call "outrage culture." The implication in a phrase like "outrage culture " isn't that outrage is an invalid human emotion; it's that it's not being tuned/targeted correctl…

That's fair enough, I was simply improving your comment.

I have a theory that cultures that value (and I mean truly value) clean, rational thinking, will be superior in not only reacting to these sorts of crises, but preventing them in the first place.

If one looks very carefully at the nature of most of the discussions taking place in the memeplex on covid-19 and a variety of other hot button topics, one thing you will notice is that there is a breathtaking amount of not just confusion, but delusion. People's internal mental models of the world do not match observable reality - it's been this way for a very long time (well, it's always been this way technically, and always will, to a degree), and it seems to me that it's getting worse at an increasing rate.

I think this is a material problem, I believe it can be observed (manually, and perhaps somehow algorithmically - we have petabytes of data to mine), and I believe something can be done about it. But first, people have to be willing to look.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#183

Post by s1artibartfast »

CydeWeys wrote: post #123
munificent wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

What does "cancel culture" have to do with containment measures taken in response to a global pandemic?

I think the applicable concept concept is that cancle culture is ineffective at changing minds and a more compassionate approach is more appropriate in both the short and long run.

Hate and shame feeds reactionary behavior and is counter productive. If you disagree with someone, empathize with them as a human being and explain how their behavior is hurting others

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#184

Post by ryandrake »

volkl48 wrote: post #51
whateveracct wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing that in the US is a Supreme Court case waiting to happen.

The Supreme Court (and other courts) have held mandatory quarantines to be legal, including of entire areas and not just persons known to be infected. It would logically follow that if the quarantine is legal, penalties for violating it are also legal. --------------- Most of those cases are quite old, but they're still the ruling precedent on the topic as far as my (limited) knowledge goes. For one that went to the…

If enforcement action happens now, we'll still have a functional Supreme Court around in a year in order to debate it.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#185

Post by nostromo »

gokhan wrote: post #181
nostromo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data from an Italian study: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-tho... Median age is 80.5. That's actually near the life expectancy of an Italian male. 99% of fatalities were among people with a prior illness. About half of the deaths were people suffering from three or more other illnesses. To put it very bluntly, a lot of the folks dying from COVID-19 were already dying. COVID-19 is the straw t…

You might be deadly wrong. About half of those infected in New York City are under 50 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/nyregion/coronavirus-new-... ...preliminary figures released on Wednesday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show that adults ages 20 to 44 represent nearly one-third of U.S. coronavirus patients whose ages are known. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-millen...

Anyone can get infected of course. Does that surprise you? The study was regarding fatalities.

In any case, it's not me who you're calling "deadly" wrong, it's the Italian Ministry of Health.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#186

Post by throwaway5752 »

dev1n wrote: post #173
throwaway5752 wrote: post #129

There is no doubt Cuomo should be the national point person for the response to the crisis based on his performance so far. He is independently working with regional manufacturing to retool to make critical medical PPE and ventilators, and has organized a regional coalition including CT, NJ, and PA. I have not agreed with him all the time, but his crisis management has been exemplary and he will have saved many lives…

It helps to be advised by one of the best people in healthcare too, Dr. Howard Zucker.

A big leadership quality is the ability to identify expertise and listen to it.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#187

Post by Dirlewanger »

y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #95

At this point wouldn't it be better to just implement a Chinese-style martial law lock-down? The damage to the economy is already here. Might as well shut things down for 3-4 weeks and slowly open up sections of a city. That seems better to me then dragging this thing out for 3 months or longer. I feel like these "stages" of lock-down are doing nothing but delaying the inevitable which will cause more damage in the l…

Governments would love that. Also, don't think things regarding their newfound powers would go "back to normal" either after.

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#188

Post by [deleted] »

munificent wrote: post #23
ilamont wrote: post #6

There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.

Man, I hate this take. I get where it's coming from. In times of significant stress, it's important that we all pull together and do work to benefit society as a whole. And part of the way we incentivize that is by calling out people who don't do their part. I get it. But we are already inundated by outrage journalism, cancel culture, and public shaming. The last thing we need is more of that. We've already got enoug…

[deleted]

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#189

Post by dbbk »

virmundi wrote: post #141
ilamont wrote: post #6

There is currently no plan in place to penalize individuals for gathering socially Then people won't take the rules seriously. Lots of people in this country still don't believe or understand how much damage this virus can inflict.

Why is the damage bad? Why not thin the population? Think about the looming stress due to the boomers living longer. If they die, housing becomes affordable. Assets move to the younger generation. Debts get canceled because their is no one left in the estate to pay. Think of this as a fire that thins the forest. New growth will come up.

Young people die as well you know...

Re: New York Governor announces 100% workforce reduction for non-essential services

#190

Post by virmundi »

r00fus wrote: post #165
virmundi wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not make the death fast? The argument is for euthanasia not a poor life to slowly die.

It's not "death fast", it's: 1) way more deaths and a complete congestion of medical services vs. 2) less deaths, manageable medical service and a period of painful stagnation for the economy. If you get critically sick or injured (not COVID19 related) and hospitals are overflowing, you will suffer when no one can see you because of COVID19 cases.

Why not move to a system where those most likely to live with minimal resource consumption move up? You’d probably need a multiplier for those that are useful to society but need more resources
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