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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#511

Post by magduf »

MiroF wrote: post #448
grey-area wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My feeling is that we should be focusing on training up medical people on a massive scale, as that's something that the USA is notoriously bad at Or just lock down nationally now, including full lockdown in major cities, and none of this will be necessary. The only reason this is going to get out of control in the US is the lack of testing and the lack of controls being imposed. By the time they are imposed, it will…

This is a messaging failure. We cannot just lockdown and “none of this is necessary.” There is no scenario short of locking down for 10 years that would be able to manage with the number of critical beds we actually have. We need to dramatically upscale capacity (which means training new doctors) and quarantine. It cannot be an either/or.

You're forgetting the development of a vaccine. With enough time (10 years is way more than enough), a vaccine will be developed and deployed, and that capacity won't be needed because far fewer people will contract the disease and develop symptoms requiring hospitalization.

The problem is, developing and testing a vaccine takes some time. How much time do we have before the global economy totally collapses?

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#512

Post by fragmede »

melling wrote: post #321

While we do need some equipment, instead of treating the symptoms, we could lock ourselves down and avoid the surge. We saw China stop the problem a month ago. South Korea seems to have stopped the problem with testing. Buy ourselves a month so we can ramp up testing. The US just past South Korea and France yesterday in covid-19 cases. We have 9400 cases and 150 deaths. By the way, China is reporting no new domestic…

For every problem there is a solution that is simple, neat—and wrong.

-H. L. Mencken

We need to lock ourselves down, and some counties in California and elsewhere have already done so.

We also need equipment and doctors.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#513

Post by greedo »

mhb wrote: post #445
greedo wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect on many levels. A ventilator always requires intubation. Sometimes that's through the mouth, sometimes through the nasal passage (both cases are referred to as endotracheal), and rarely through a tracheostomy. Ventilators do have some monitoring capability, but require consistent attention from respiratory therapists. The chances of infection (VAP), pneumothorax etc are serious without careful monit…

A ventilator always requires intubation Can you elaborate? This ventilator documentation[0] says for invasive and noninvasive ventilation [0] https://www.usa.philips.com/healthcare/product/HCNOCTN98/res...

When treating bilateral interstitial pneumonia, you're almost always intubating. Patients presenting BIP require higher oxygenation than a CPAP style mask can provide. Using a limited availability ventilator with just a mask is a waste at this time.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#514

Post by fragmede »

themaninthedark wrote: post #447
melling wrote: post #321

While we do need some equipment, instead of treating the symptoms, we could lock ourselves down and avoid the surge. We saw China stop the problem a month ago. South Korea seems to have stopped the problem with testing. Buy ourselves a month so we can ramp up testing. The US just past South Korea and France yesterday in covid-19 cases. We have 9400 cases and 150 deaths. By the way, China is reporting no new domestic…

China destroyed data and tried to cover up when the outbreak first started, now they are kicking journalist out of the country. I would not believe anything they are saying at this point in time.

That's an over reductive view, and throws out the baby with the bathwater. China is not a monolithic entity, and while the CCP has, and exerts a lot of control, it is not omnipotent. The number of cases as reported by China will always be suspect, but we are already seeing some information from China being borne out elsewhere. In particular, Italy has been showing similar numbers as China - Covid-19 is particularly lethal to those over 80, less so in children. There are other bits of information we can learn from them, even if we never believe the number of cases is accurate.

As far as the emergency hospital situation and the number of cases in China, I'm sure the US government has been keeping track of the situation via spy satellite. The CCP would never have let the fact that one of the hospitals collapsed escape the country otherwise.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#515

Post by fma »

barry-cotter wrote: post #265
jacquesm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever thought that running your healthcare system in a commercial fashion was the right idea in the first place? A lot of fundamental decisions are going to be re-thought in the aftermath of this virus' impact, but for now we can ignore all that and focus on what matters: eradicating the thing. And if GM making ventilators on a war footing is what it takes I'm all for it, let's divert some of those funds to them an…

The US has more intensive care unit beds per capita than any other country. Among developed nations they will not come out of this with the highest COVID death toll per capita. The Italian healthcare system is closer to the not for profit ideal and it’s not doing great right now.

There are many factors to why Italy isn't do great. Including their population skews on the older side and they have the oldest population in Italy...which unfortunately has a 1 in 5 chance of dying if they catch the virus.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#516

Post by jimkleiber »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #480

I don't want to disappoint anyone, but they are stating "we stand ready to do this" but the tacit follow up is "when we are asked to" . The president has stated he is not ready to ask them "He's casting doubt over whether he will actually implement a move to invoke the Defense Production Act -- that he signed on Wednesday and that gives him authority to order industry to work towards homeland defense and national goa…

For me, it's obvious that a virus that starts on the other side of the world and could kill millions of Americans is an urgent national security problem and the defense department should be involved.

And if we don't currently have a need for extra ventilators (which I'm sure we do) there are other countries who do have that need and this virus doesn't care which human defined borders it is within.

If it were me, I'd ramp up production across the US, so that WHEN we have the need, we will be operating at high capacity and if we have excess, we distribute them to the world to save human lives and protect future American lives.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#517

Post by leereeves »

tsimionescu wrote: post #395
leereeves wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should be blaming China. They jailed the doctor who tried to warn us. They lied to the world. They "issued an order to hospitals, clinics and other healthcare units strictly prohibiting the release of any information about treatment of this new disease."[1] That's not about shifting blame from the US government. That's placing the blame where it belongs. As the famously conservative editorial board of the Wa…

I am neither in the US or China. I would note though that blaming other countries is rarely useful, since you have virtually 0 power to influence the decisions of other countries. However, you do have some measure of power to affect the decisions of your own country, so assessing and blaming the response that your own country had is more useful than looking at others. So you can absolutely say that China deceived the…

You're right that we can't do much to change the power structure in China, but we can change our own relationship with them.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#518

Post by fma »

jjeaff wrote: post #109
jdc wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonetheless ramping up supply still solves the problem by driving prices down

If any of them have half a brain, they are maintaining their regular prices and ramping up production and stockpiling them for the inevitable demand in a few more weeks.

In fairness, if your hourly workers are working overtime to "ramp up production" you need to pay them overtime of 1.5x (In China, it can be double or triple (forgot which one) since their workers were working during Chinese New Year) . Their costs increases and should be able to reasonable increase price to accommodate.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#519

Post by throwaway5752 »

HEHENE wrote: post #493
ruffrey wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you point us to some current sources about ICE arresting people at hospitals?

As a counter point; ICE has recently said they will only be arresting illegal immigrants who pose a public safety risk and will be delaying enforcement actions until after the crisis for others. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ice-says-it-will-not-detain-mos...

Not a counterpoint. I just hadn't heard that, yet. That would be most welcome news. There are other steps (releasing nonviolent offenders from prison and other confinement) that might be politically unpopular but urgently need to be done.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#520

Post by capableweb »

jimkleiber wrote: post #516
throwaway5752 wrote: post #480

I don't want to disappoint anyone, but they are stating "we stand ready to do this" but the tacit follow up is "when we are asked to" . The president has stated he is not ready to ask them "He's casting doubt over whether he will actually implement a move to invoke the Defense Production Act -- that he signed on Wednesday and that gives him authority to order industry to work towards homeland defense and national goa…

For me, it's obvious that a virus that starts on the other side of the world and could kill millions of Americans is an urgent national security problem and the defense department should be involved. And if we don't currently have a need for extra ventilators (which I'm sure we do) there are other countries who do have that need and this virus doesn't care which human defined borders it is within. If it were me, I'd…

> For me, it's obvious that a virus that starts on the other side of the world and could kill millions of Americans is an urgent national security problem and the defense department should be involved.

Well, as I understand it, Defense Production Act would mean for-profit companies who are earning lots of money on the current event would earn less money. If any of these people who earn money on the current event is sitting in the current administration, it makes sense that they don't see any huge issues with not using the Defense Production Act. I guess that's what you get when a country solely focuses on capitalism since it's inception.

The following quote, while not exactly for this situation, comes to mind:

> It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It

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