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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#421

Post by grey-area »

lsc wrote: post #209

Yeah, I'm personally not too concerned with the "stuff" end of things. This is America; in spite of rhetoric to the contrary, we remain a manufacturing powerhouse. Apply enough money and we'll get whatever "stuff" we need on pretty short order. I think the big problem is medical technicians and doctors. My feeling is that we should be focusing on training up medical people on a massive scale, as that's something that…

My feeling is that we should be focusing on training up medical people on a massive scale, as that's something that the USA is notoriously bad at

Or just lock down nationally now, including full lockdown in major cities, and none of this will be necessary. The only reason this is going to get out of control in the US is the lack of testing and the lack of controls being imposed.

By the time they are imposed, it will be too late and more people are going to die because of that.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#422

Post by jpindar »

onion2k wrote: post #368
ajross wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because no one has stepped up to write a check. Hospitals are businesses, they're not going to do this on their own. GM is a business, they're not donating those ventilators, they're trying to make a sale into a new market. States, most of them, can't do it because their budgets are fixed by their constitutions and they can't take a loan or write a bond without a referendum. There's basically one entity in thi…

Right, because no one has stepped up to write a check. If only billionaire Elon Musk knew someone who could pay.

As of last night, Musk does not believe there is a shortage.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1240486275892662273

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#423

Post by endorphone »

chrononaut wrote: post #416
anthony_r wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Elon thought that the coronavirus panic is dumb. https://elonmusk.today/ https://www.thestar.com.my/tech/tech-news/2020/03/11/tesla-c...

The content quoted in the "The Star" makes it seems more to me that he's calling the _panic_ dumb, not the necessities required to fight the pandemic, which he acknowledges exists in his follow-on tweets, at least the ones "The Star" quoted. I also think the "coronavirus panic" is dumb, but I'm defining the "panic" when I say this as people buying 5 years of toilet paper, and unless there's more context that's what I…

Elon Musk's words-

“My frank opinion remains that the harm from the coronavirus panic far exceeds that of the virus itself. If there is a massive redirection of medical resources out of proportion to the danger, it will result in less available care to those with critical medical needs, which does not serve the greater good.”

“My best guess, for what it’s worth, based on the latest Center for Disease Control data, is that confirmed COVID-19 (this specific form of the common cold) cases will not exceed 0.1% of the US population. Moreover, I do not think when we look back on 2020, that the causes of death or serious injury will have changed much from 2017.”

No, he wasn't talking about toilet paper hoarders. He was yet another overly self-absorbed person who thought that because he knows about something, ergo he knows about everything. HN is full of those types. That the "panic" response of actual professionals who are experts in this field just didn't match his imagination of how to respond to this "form of the common cold".

As an aside - the MAGA brigade is out in heavy force lately. The type of comments that are being flagged is absolutely ludicrous. If you find a comment that's politically unpalatable, be sure to flag it.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#424

Post by foota »

riffraff wrote: post #190
TomMckenny wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple possible re-thinkings. The disturbing one is where it is noticed that we are essentially sacrificing a bit of the economy to reduce fatalities. So next time it is decided that company valuations are worth the extra deaths[1] I submit that rethinking needs to be started early rather than late so the discussion isn't dominated by euphemisms for some very dark path. [1] As we know, social isolation is…

to be fair, you can adopt europe/wuhan-style total lockdown but you could also adopt developed-asia-style mass tracing. The latter seems to have been way more effective in containing the epidemic and less impactful on the economy. So, there was third option which saves both people and economy, but it's probably politically unfeasible.

It's not politically infeasible, the adminstration just fucked it up. We could have been mass testing like other countries back in early February.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#425

Post by dmix »

7952 wrote: post #261
jacquesm wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever thought that running your healthcare system in a commercial fashion was the right idea in the first place? A lot of fundamental decisions are going to be re-thought in the aftermath of this virus' impact, but for now we can ignore all that and focus on what matters: eradicating the thing. And if GM making ventilators on a war footing is what it takes I'm all for it, let's divert some of those funds to them an…

It is perfectly possible to rapidly buy things in a commercial setting. You just need a good credit rating and someone to sign the purchase order or contract. Why should the vendor care if the customer is breaking an internal rule about purchasing?

Because it’s not really about the access to capital, it’s about rules designed for non-pandemics slowing them down during one.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#426

Post by gpm »

grey-area wrote: post #421
lsc wrote: post #209

Yeah, I'm personally not too concerned with the "stuff" end of things. This is America; in spite of rhetoric to the contrary, we remain a manufacturing powerhouse. Apply enough money and we'll get whatever "stuff" we need on pretty short order. I think the big problem is medical technicians and doctors. My feeling is that we should be focusing on training up medical people on a massive scale, as that's something that…

My feeling is that we should be focusing on training up medical people on a massive scale, as that's something that the USA is notoriously bad at Or just lock down nationally now, including full lockdown in major cities, and none of this will be necessary. The only reason this is going to get out of control in the US is the lack of testing and the lack of controls being imposed. By the time they are imposed, it will…

Nationally lock down now, and once we unlock down the virus will come back from foreign countries and be just as much of an issue.

Slightly more of an issue in fact, because we will have just shot ourselves in the foot in terms of capability to deal with it via manufacturing.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#427

Post by adrianN »

76543210 wrote: post #394
lsc wrote: post #209

Yeah, I'm personally not too concerned with the "stuff" end of things. This is America; in spite of rhetoric to the contrary, we remain a manufacturing powerhouse. Apply enough money and we'll get whatever "stuff" we need on pretty short order. I think the big problem is medical technicians and doctors. My feeling is that we should be focusing on training up medical people on a massive scale, as that's something that…

Just an idea (that would never happen)- Why not make it like Engineering? You do your 4 year undergrad and at your first job, no one trusts you. Your supervisor/senior engineer checks Everything you do. You are reserved for paperwork and unskilled manual labor which is also checked. After a few years (4) you get some Freedom, but still checked by your seniors. Anything important, even when you are a senior engineer g…

The medical system works pretty much like this. After studying medicine you have a long practical education where nobody trusts you.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#428

Post by ineedasername »

nickik wrote: post #359

That's a total fantasy when you consider rare earths. And they know it. The military can produce basically nothing without resources for China.

Rare earths are like shale oil right now: The US has plenty capacity, it's just that the cost is higher than the market rate. It would take a short time to ramp up, but we could get them without China.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#429

Post by javagram »

diarmuidc wrote: post #351
xvector wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can’t say I agree. Surprisingly few people wear masks even when they are available - my local hardware stores have had plenty in stock and yet they barely get used. Finally, the benefit of masks is questionable since most people are now performing social distancing. Ventilators are needed for serious cases and cannot be produced as quickly as masks. While masks may or may not help, more ventilators will definitely he…

Because masks don't help prevent you getting it https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...

Your link says “ If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.” - in other words, it does help prevent someone from getting it.

The reason health organizations outside of Asia are not recommending mask wearing by the general public is there are not enough to go around, so they are trying to stop the public from hoarding them when the masks are vital equipment needed by medical providers.

Wearing the masks also helps prevent infected persons (some of whom are asymptomatic with this coronavirus) from spreading it, if previous research on flu viruses is considered applicable. https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/face-masks-flu/

“These results suggest an important role for aerosols in transmission of influenza virus and that surgical facemasks worn by infected persons are potentially an effective means of limiting the spread of influenza.”

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#430

Post by lightgreen »

int_19h wrote: post #244
lightgreen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I add a controversial comment again please? It will be downvoted again, sadly, I'll create a new account after this thread. People who say that Musk should use all his resources to help society, usually do nothing themselves (I'm not speaking about you personally). It's pure virtue signalling. Elon musk can loose 10% of his money switching from producing Teslas to producing ventilators. But everyone can use their…

10% of Musk's money is much less of a burden on Musk, marginal utility and all.

This might be true only for the poorest people who are starving, or for people who only spend money, not make them.

When I was younger and did not have savings, I did not care about money at all: I could spend money wherever I wanted, and it did not matter, because I could not spend more than I had. Money were worthless to me.

But now I have to save: every extra penny spent is subtracted from my future home.

But for Musk money even more valuable: I imagine the risk of loosing business is much more important than having to live in a slightly cheaper home in 20 years.

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