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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#331

Post by scarejunba »

dmix wrote: post #37
woofyman wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk thinks it’s hype https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239756900255903744

That's an overstatement of what he said. He had been posting about possible medical treatments [1], which is why the tweet you linked to starts with "That said" before talking about panicking and redirecting medical resources away from people who need it. Do you know why? The drug he was posting about before that tweet, `chloroquine`, is already facing shortages around the globe for people already on it for non-COVID…

That's just bureaucracy in the West. I have contacts in the East who got me Lariago-DS. Super cheap to manufacture, super compact, easy to ship. In fact, it's in plentiful supply. Just not in the West because you have a customs wall.

Drop the wall and you'll have your drugs in days. If you have 'backorders' for your Lupus patients, then you've already failed at something trivial to solve.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#332

Post by huffmsa »

As they should.

The United States can manufacturer its way out of this problem, it just needs to mobilize.

Uber is a hyper local, infinitely scalable logistics network.

All of those startups making modular homes out of shipping containers could and should be making temporary hospital wings (which would conveniently fit on an 18 wheeler for easy transportation).

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#333

Post by leereeves »

netsharc wrote: post #325
leereeves wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the same scenario, but now Team A and Team B are on opposite sides of the world, and Team A is an authoritarian regime that won't let anyone get near Forest A and won't let anyone talk about Forest A, and instead of a forest fire, the danger is microscopic, invisible to the naked eye and to satellites. Would you still blame Team B for not knowing about the danger immediately?

I'm not blaming team B for not knowing about it immediately, I'm blaming them for their shrugging response even after it's terribly obvious what's happened. And you seem to say Team B is still utterly blameless, it's all Team A's fault.

Let's drop the analogy and discuss reality.

What do you blame Trump for?

From what I've read, the US response was hindered mostly by a faulty reagent in the CDC's test kits, which led to an inability to test patients for the virus.[1] How is a faulty reagent Trump's fault?

And even with that hinderence, the course of the virus, the number of people hospitalized, and the government policies in the US seem to be proceeding in parallel with most other developed nations.

1: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/united-states-badly-...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#334

Post by melling »

iso947 wrote: post #327
melling wrote: post #321

While we do need some equipment, instead of treating the symptoms, we could lock ourselves down and avoid the surge. We saw China stop the problem a month ago. South Korea seems to have stopped the problem with testing. Buy ourselves a month so we can ramp up testing. The US just past South Korea and France yesterday in covid-19 cases. We have 9400 cases and 150 deaths. By the way, China is reporting no new domestic…

Need both I’m afraid Cases are irelevent - that’s a function of how widespread the tests are. Do more tests, find more cases. Test people with symptoms find more cases. Allow anyone to take a test find less symptoms.

Yes, South Korea tested themselves out of the problem.

We should be able to ramp testing up quickly, much quicker than building ventilators.

How long did it take South Korea to control the outbreak?

China records no new local cases:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/world/coronavirus-news.ht...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#335

Post by brobdingnagians »

tobylane wrote: post #280
noir_lord wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same reason there are rules about ships going between US ports been manufactured in the US - to keep strategic ship building capacity in the event of a war.

That well meaning law means there’s one cruise ship that fits the requirements, all the others visit one foreign port. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_America It looks like the cargo ship law, Jones Act, is more successful in creating capacity.

Even then, it took a special exemption from Congress since it was towed to and finished in Germany after the initial company filed bankruptcy.

> Norwegian Cruise Line Ltd acquired the unfinished ship and was towed to Germany for completion as Pride of America for their newly launched NCL America division. > A special exemption on the part of the U.S. government allowed the modified, mostly German-built ship to attain U.S. registry. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_America

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#336

Post by leereeves »

bildung wrote: post #330
leereeves wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us aren't medical professionals or researchers, so there's not really a lot we can do to help, other than stay home and avoid spreading the virus. Meanwhile, life goes on, including the usual political discussions. And those are important. They shouldn't end. The actions of our leaders should be scrutinized intensely at all times, even during a crisis. "The blame game" is not a productive term for holding nat…

There is still a bunch of things that everyone can do. Counter misinformation like fake-remedies or conspiracy theories your family forwards, that kind of stuff, supporting local shops by buying gift cards etc., looking out for at-risk neighbours. Here are a few ideas: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/learning/how-can-we-help-... I'm all for political discussions! But what help does it do right now discussing wheth…

> I think it's more important to analyze why the US takes so long with implementing more impactful measures, e.g. distancing measures like canceling events are still just strong recommondations, and not enforced.

Americans have a long and proud tradition of doing the opposite of what the government tells us to do. Ordering events cancelled and stores closed would probably lead more people to go out, just to defy the orders.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#337

Post by JonathanFly »

Wouldn't it make more sense to make masks and other PPE first?

You don't need a ventilator if you don't get sick in the first place, masks are much faster to put into immediate production, and impacting the curve earlier is going to have a much bigger effect than later.

I mean make everything. But I have family members working in hospitals right now and they are asking me to search the internet and find masks for them. Not ideal.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#338

Post by abeld »

NohatCoder wrote: post #307
ironmagma wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any guides to how to set up a ventilator by chance? Asking for a friend...

Very short guide: Put a mouthpiece on the patient, connect the mouthpiece to the tube from the ventilator, turn the ventilator on. Longer guide: Read the manual for the specific ventilator and have fun adjusting air mixture, pump frequency, pressure, volume and other stuff. Choose one of several different models of mouthpiece, with or without tubes, depending on patient needs. Learn about different failure modes and…

The type of ventillators required by the most serious cases are much more complicated: as I understand it, it involves push a tube down to the lungs, and the machine breathing instead of the patient, i.e. it has to carefully monitor and regulate the pressure etc. Already the "push tube down to the lungs" part is quite a challenge: avoiding damage to the vocal cords, or to the lungs, etc.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#339

Post by leereeves »

bildung wrote: post #318
leereeves wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly are we supposed to see in those links? I see two photos of people standing close together. Neither group is practicing social distancing. The Japanese are wearing masks (not N95 masks) whose effectiveness is still being debated, but that's about custom, not government response. The photo from America shows a bigger room, but I suspect that's just a choice of photo and Japanese airports had big rooms full…

The important point of the Japanese mask-wearing custom is the reason why they are worn: To protect others from infection. That purpose doesn't need N95 protection. The current US Airport situation was in the news here in Germany, but perhaps not in the US. It breaks with most distancing guidelines. People are much too close to each other (compared to the advised 1-2m distance), and shared the same room (and air) for…

I wonder if wearing masks is actually an effective custom that might become more popular in the West.

But it's not an option right now, there are no face masks available. That's a custom that has to exist before the pandemic starts so people will already have masks.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#340

Post by xvector »

JonathanFly wrote: post #337

Wouldn't it make more sense to make masks and other PPE first? You don't need a ventilator if you don't get sick in the first place, masks are much faster to put into immediate production, and impacting the curve earlier is going to have a much bigger effect than later. I mean make everything. But I have family members working in hospitals right now and they are asking me to search the internet and find masks for the…

Can’t say I agree. Surprisingly few people wear masks even when they are available - my local hardware stores have had plenty in stock and yet they barely get used. Finally, the benefit of masks is questionable since most people are now performing social distancing.

Ventilators are needed for serious cases and cannot be produced as quickly as masks. While masks may or may not help, more ventilators will definitely help.

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