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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#261

Post by 7952 »

jacquesm wrote: post #161
ajross wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because no one has stepped up to write a check. Hospitals are businesses, they're not going to do this on their own. GM is a business, they're not donating those ventilators, they're trying to make a sale into a new market. States, most of them, can't do it because their budgets are fixed by their constitutions and they can't take a loan or write a bond without a referendum. There's basically one entity in thi…

Whoever thought that running your healthcare system in a commercial fashion was the right idea in the first place? A lot of fundamental decisions are going to be re-thought in the aftermath of this virus' impact, but for now we can ignore all that and focus on what matters: eradicating the thing. And if GM making ventilators on a war footing is what it takes I'm all for it, let's divert some of those funds to them an…

It is perfectly possible to rapidly buy things in a commercial setting. You just need a good credit rating and someone to sign the purchase order or contract. Why should the vendor care if the customer is breaking an internal rule about purchasing?

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#262

Post by tropo »

lsc wrote: post #239
malandrew wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not that we’re bad at training medical personnel. It’s that the AMA acts as a cartel to limit the number of physicians train to keep income high. We just need to allow more people into medical schools and make more residencies available.

Yeah, remove the limiter, and how long does it take to make a doctor? I mean, sure, some people are saying that this thing is still gonna be here in four years (I am not a medical person, but that's what some of them say. something about the type of virus this is that will make a vaccine difficult) so that might not be a bad idea, but... I think we probably need to be focusing on how we can increase medical capacity…

It's easy if we are willing to cut red tape and willing to prioritize people over pets. Veterinarians need almost no training to do the job. Test runs done for emergency preparation have proven that veterinarians do a better job than all medical professionals who aren't already specialized in respiratory care.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#263

Post by barry-cotter »

simion314 wrote: post #229
leereeves wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone should be blaming China. They jailed the doctor who tried to warn us. They lied to the world. They "issued an order to hospitals, clinics and other healthcare units strictly prohibiting the release of any information about treatment of this new disease."[1] That's not about shifting blame from the US government. That's placing the blame where it belongs. As the famously conservative editorial board of the Wa…

>That's not about shifting blame from the US government. That's placing the blame where it belongs. But for some reason Japan and South Korea were informed and handled the problem, so what conspiracy explains this? Japan has good spies? Japan has supernatural future prediction technology?

Recent experience with SARS meant East Asian countries had procedures in place, took the threat seriously and that the general population did likewise.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#264

Post by gnopgnip »

SiVal wrote: post #145

It already does a lot of inflexible manufacturing, often by outsourcing overseas, but I'd love to see part of the US military converted to a rapid-response, highly flexible, fully-domestic manufacturing system. LOTS of very flexible automation, so they could take a wide range of designs and raw materials and rapidly switch from making one thing to making another and the ability to hugely ramp up production on demand…

This is literally what the military is now. Under the berry amendment a lot of what the military buys needs to be 100% domestic. A significant fraction of military spending is to ensure that the logistics are in place in case of a greater need in the future, not just to fulfill current needs and training, or any specific mission.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#265

Post by barry-cotter »

jacquesm wrote: post #161
ajross wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because no one has stepped up to write a check. Hospitals are businesses, they're not going to do this on their own. GM is a business, they're not donating those ventilators, they're trying to make a sale into a new market. States, most of them, can't do it because their budgets are fixed by their constitutions and they can't take a loan or write a bond without a referendum. There's basically one entity in thi…

Whoever thought that running your healthcare system in a commercial fashion was the right idea in the first place? A lot of fundamental decisions are going to be re-thought in the aftermath of this virus' impact, but for now we can ignore all that and focus on what matters: eradicating the thing. And if GM making ventilators on a war footing is what it takes I'm all for it, let's divert some of those funds to them an…

The US has more intensive care unit beds per capita than any other country. Among developed nations they will not come out of this with the highest COVID death toll per capita. The Italian healthcare system is closer to the not for profit ideal and it’s not doing great right now.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#266

Post by ironmagma »

NohatCoder wrote: post #258
malandrew wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are not the bottleneck. Intensivists that can operate the vents are the bottleneck https://sccm.org/Blog/March-2020/United-States-Resource-Avai...

That is some bureaucratic nonsense. Setting up and maintaining a ventilator is not rocket science, you can train other staff to do that job pretty quickly. Ancillary tasks may suffer from staff shortage, but if you need one, getting a ventilator and minimal care is a lot better than not getting a ventilator.

Any guides to how to set up a ventilator by chance? Asking for a friend...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#267

Post by egwor »

0xWTF wrote: post #222
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say: surely the US military maintains a manufacturing core? I’m a metal fabricator by trade, and one thing you quickly notice is: with a machine shop and a fabrication shop you are tooled up to build the machines to manufacture almost anything.

Folks, military physician here, operating at the national level on the analysis that informs these projects. The recent post on HN about the MIT $100 ventilator is one of the things that got this rolling. Manufacturing is spinning up. What I really need is developers on this project: https://github.com/joshua-s/coronavirus-diary

What help do you need? - testers? - docs? - code reviews?

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#268

Post by noir_lord »

gnopgnip wrote: post #264
SiVal wrote: post #145

It already does a lot of inflexible manufacturing, often by outsourcing overseas, but I'd love to see part of the US military converted to a rapid-response, highly flexible, fully-domestic manufacturing system. LOTS of very flexible automation, so they could take a wide range of designs and raw materials and rapidly switch from making one thing to making another and the ability to hugely ramp up production on demand…

This is literally what the military is now. Under the berry amendment a lot of what the military buys needs to be 100% domestic. A significant fraction of military spending is to ensure that the logistics are in place in case of a greater need in the future, not just to fulfill current needs and training, or any specific mission.

Same reason there are rules about ships going between US ports been manufactured in the US - to keep strategic ship building capacity in the event of a war.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#269

Post by ironmagma »

syntaxing wrote: post #35

This is definitely great and uplifting news but I am not sure why GM or Ford is the one on top of list for this endeavor? There are a bunch of second source assembly houses that build medical equipment for the big players. Seems like it would make more sense for them to build it with some sort of FDA fast pass. Discretion, I work for a carmaker company but my opinion is of my own only.

Considering how we've massively bailed GM out with public funds, they may as well be considered to be partly responsible for the health of the public.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#270

Post by ImaCake »

salawat wrote: post #203
adrr wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one cares about any of this stuff. Rules need to be tossed aside to minimize loss of life. All FDA rules surrounding drugs need to be suspended for COVID19 patients. We need to start doing what china did and start using non approved anti-virals to save people's lives. We need to start vaccinating at risk populations(75 or older) with the trial vaccine if it is shown to be effective in the upcoming weeks. We cant w…

Woah there. Don't be so hasty to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Don't need another Thalidomide dropped on us just because things are looking a bit grim. It's one thing to ask "Do we really need to let this stand in our way right now?"; It's an entirely different kettle of fish to say "Screw it, if it kills the virus anything goes!"

>Woah there. Don't be so hasty to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Agreed. I may absolutely hate the documentation I have to complete as a microbiologist in a GMP company, but there is a reason for it. I just wish that GMP wasn't filled with so much BS. The parent comment here is being ridiculous and deserves to be argued against.

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