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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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191–200 of 584 posts

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#191
>>Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk said the company would make ventilators if there is a shortage

well, there is. Either get off Twitter or shoot a tweet to your underlings to get going. Pretty much countries will buy any ventilator that someone makes, money is no object.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be fair, Elon has had plenty of accomplishments in "making the world a better place". I don't see the point of all this concentrated attention on one person as if he's the savior to every problem.

Cite some examples?

Advancements in electric transportation, solar power and battery technology for a cleaner and more sustainable energy grid. Efficient access to space leading to more commercial development including cheap worldwide broadband. 2 major corporations creating thousands of jobs and billions in market value.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#193
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitals are hamstrung by their bureaucracies and financial policies. The best thing that can be done is an independent assessment of need and start "airdropping" supplies if a shortage is apparent.

Did no one bother to actually read the article? It says that there can potentially be a shortage but that there isn't currently. The fed has 13000 and the military an extra 2000. It currently seems more hamstrung by bureaucracy or lack of information. Hospitals have to request their state governments which have to then request them from the federal government. Only one state has requested them so far. "“We have recei…

>>Did no one bother to actually read the article? It says that there can potentially be a shortage but that there isn't currently.

By the time we see a shortage is late, way too late. Lungs need oxygen and cannot wait for purchase orders and negotiations. You'll need MILLIONS of them, and doctors that know how to use them, like yesterday.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#194
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hospitals are hamstrung by their bureaucracies and financial policies. The best thing that can be done is an independent assessment of need and start "airdropping" supplies if a shortage is apparent.

Did no one bother to actually read the article? It says that there can potentially be a shortage but that there isn't currently. The fed has 13000 and the military an extra 2000. It currently seems more hamstrung by bureaucracy or lack of information. Hospitals have to request their state governments which have to then request them from the federal government. Only one state has requested them so far. "“We have recei…

For some context, we might have a shortage of over 100,000 ventilators in the US if we fail to flatten the curve (or over a million if we don't take any precautions).

Some numbers for a conservative estimate where only low-risk people are infected: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22590692

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple possible re-thinkings. The disturbing one is where it is noticed that we are essentially sacrificing a bit of the economy to reduce fatalities. So next time it is decided that company valuations are worth the extra deaths[1] I submit that rethinking needs to be started early rather than late so the discussion isn't dominated by euphemisms for some very dark path. [1] As we know, social isolation is…

America has been on the dark path where lives are equated to money for a long time now. It will take something quite dramatic to shock the system to the point where people are willing to re-think it from the ground up. Maybe this is that shock. If not now, then probably never.

Except that quality-adjusted life expectancy changes due to side effects of drugs are valued much more higher than people dying due to being too broke to get any non-ER-care for acute, but not yet emergency-posing illnesses. Even within the drug certification process there is an issue with relatively niche drugs wasting a lot on overly-extensive studies, if you calculate how many people would get how much benefit from getting/affording these niche drugs. IIRC there is about an order of magnitude higher weight on side-effect deaths compared to lack-of-medicine deaths for niche drugs.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#196
post #145

It already does a lot of inflexible manufacturing, often by outsourcing overseas, but I'd love to see part of the US military converted to a rapid-response, highly flexible, fully-domestic manufacturing system. LOTS of very flexible automation, so they could take a wide range of designs and raw materials and rapidly switch from making one thing to making another and the ability to hugely ramp up production on demand…

I love this idea. Non-wartime competition with contractors.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be fair, Elon has had plenty of accomplishments in "making the world a better place". I don't see the point of all this concentrated attention on one person as if he's the savior to every problem.

Cite some examples?

- introduced easy payment decades ago (PayPal)

- reduced the cost of launching satellites significantly

- has made electric cars 'cool'

- by doing this has inspired people to take risks and be visionary

Don't get me wrong, he's certainly got his flaws, and Tesla has it's challednges cut out for them. But you have to credit him: he's made his dent, and is working on further dents as we speak.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the healthcare system and medical supply chain are two separate things. A universal healthcare system (for E.g. Sweden) still has a normal supply chain. The only difference is the profit motives are not present and the government can effectively pump money in without violating economic principles of supply/demand and pricing.

A commercialized health care system has lots of perverse incentives leading to price increases and profiteering. This sets the weakest fraction of the population up for losing all they've built up in the last 3 months of their life while barely impacting the strong. It also means that those hospitals don't care about overpaying for their supplies and medication (but not their workforce) because they get to pass those…

Yes, definitely, American healthcare system needs a reboot - this might be a good time to do that. The only difference is that I would be paying about the same but the insurance would cover the rest. The problem being - if you're well off, you pay $1500, if you're not, you pay $24000 and potentially go broke. That is the problem with the American healthcare system.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#199
post #162
post #145

It already does a lot of inflexible manufacturing, often by outsourcing overseas, but I'd love to see part of the US military converted to a rapid-response, highly flexible, fully-domestic manufacturing system. LOTS of very flexible automation, so they could take a wide range of designs and raw materials and rapidly switch from making one thing to making another and the ability to hugely ramp up production on demand…

https://www.navsea.navy.mil/Home/Shipyards/Norfolk/Departmen...

I was going to say: surely the US military maintains a manufacturing core?

I’m a metal fabricator by trade, and one thing you quickly notice is: with a machine shop and a fabrication shop you are tooled up to build the machines to manufacture almost anything.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, Elon has no inherent responsibility to solve this (he's not Batman to call on whenever we need). Many large companies are already open to helping. There's no shortage of willing capacity. What they need is approval and guidance from the government, that's where the failure is. Notice there's still no reply taking up GM on their offer.

GM should just start the process of making them anyway.

There are medical equipment manufacturers better suited for this role. GM is a last resort and this is more of a symbolic gesture.
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