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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#111

Post by Rapzid »

vvanders wrote: post #56
lightgreen wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess people at the factory do few close contacts which can lead to virus transmission. And I guess they are supplied with hand sanitizers and handwashing is mandatory. On the other hand, people get paid, the factory is saved from bankruptcy so people can continue working in the factory even after the end of the outbreak. I'm not sure that closing the factory is a universally good decision for society. Edit: Englis…

Considering that the virus can live for up to 9 days on metal, glass or plastic[1] I'm not sure that mandatory hand washing is going to do much in an assembly line where everyone interacts directly vehicles on the line. [1] https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-670...

I think the absolute risk must be low for surface transmission. Otherwise we'd just be getting our coronavirus from the grocery store and deliveries?

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#113

Post by justicezyx »

thereare5lights wrote: post #67

> There are going to be a lot of comments about how we messed up, wasted time, etc., but they miss the point. That, ironically, misses the point of the existing comments about how we wasted time. By wasting time, lots of people are going to die that didn't need to die. None of that has to do with mobilization itself or the issues that we run into during mobilization, it has to do with when we decided to mobilize.

No, wasting time is retrospective.

In technical terms, wasted time is a conclusion of the signals derived from waiting for those time.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#114

Post by bagacrap »

adventured wrote: post #91
cutenewt wrote: post #89

I hope companies step up and create surgical masks. It's such a basic item, but we don't have enough. Forget about guns, it's like asking troops to fight without shoes.

The federal government has placed an order for 500 million N95 masks. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/trump-say...

What does that even mean? Placing an order doesn't magically solve production shortages.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#115

Post by war1025 »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #75

This made me feel a twinge of patriotism. Something I haven’t felt in a long time.

I listened to today's episode of "The Daily" [1] and it had me feeling similarly.

I can't find a transcript, but he basically said, "Put aside the political differences. Forget about the hit to the economy. We are at war with this virus and human lives are at stake. Do your part."

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/18/podcasts/the-daily/cuomo-...

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#116

Post by manigandham »

lightgreen wrote: post #106
manigandham wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, Elon has no inherent responsibility to solve this (he's not Batman to call on whenever we need). Many large companies are already open to helping. There's no shortage of willing capacity. What they need is approval and guidance from the government, that's where the failure is. Notice there's still no reply taking up GM on their offer.

> What they need is approval and guidance from the government I actually think these companies need orders from the governments, not just approval and guidance. People compared coronavirus with war in this thread. AFAIK private companies made tanks and guns for money, not for free during WW2 (except for USSR).

Yes, there are special provisions during wartime, but it's unlikely we'll have that in response to a virus pandemic.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#117

Post by [deleted] »

lightgreen wrote: post #99
frank2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a factory full of people using gloves and alcohol sanitizers will spread the virus unless the people are trained and experienced in sterile technique.

I guess it will spread it significantly slower than an office, a train or a restaurant. Probably R0 < 1 in the factory.

[deleted]

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#118

Post by monadic2 »

jdc wrote: post #95
BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Meanwhile, actual ventilator manufacturers are not getting many orders: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/18/ventilator-...

Nonetheless ramping up supply still solves the problem by driving prices down

Only if they actually decide to drive prices down. There is zero indication this is happening.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#119

Post by xyzzyz »

jjeaff wrote: post #108
mgerdts wrote: post #96

Manufacture of medical devices has specific regulation around Good Manufacturing Processes [1] (GMP, one of many GxPs). This requires a Quality Management System [2] (QMS) and very specific training for everyone involved. Pretty much any manufacturer that is not already manufacturing in accordance with 21 CFR Part 820 [3] and related regulations will have a ton of work to establish a suitable QMS. I'd like to think t…

I think you are a bit confused about the position the country is in right now. Regulations and regulators can and will be damned in an emergency. Of course, all reasonable precautions should be taken when producing medical equipment. But if someone needs a ventilator, they are going to die without it. It doesn't matter that there is a small chance that complications arise or some flaw in the ventilator causes it not…

It seems that in time of actual crisis, we're all libertarians.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#120

Post by dmix »

zozbot234 wrote: post #100
dmix wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an overstatement of what he said. He had been posting about possible medical treatments [1], which is why the tweet you linked to starts with "That said" before talking about panicking and redirecting medical resources away from people who need it. Do you know why? The drug he was posting about before that tweet, `chloroquine`, is already facing shortages around the globe for people already on it for non-COVID…

Chloroquine is already on the WHO list of 'essential medicines', and can be made very cheaply as a generic. Any shortages would be quite temporary indeed; the last thing you want to do in such circumstances is suppress latent demand for it and repeat the whole masks/respirators/hand sanitizer fiasco.

That doesn't mean much to the people with Lupus having their pharmacist tell them it's on "backorder", far less than not having hand sanitizer. One would hope it's only temporary.

On the brighter side, France has a company promising to produce millions of doses:

> French manufacturer Sanofi has said it could hypothetically offer enough doses of Plaquenil - a drug containing the molecule hydroxychloroquine - to treat up to 300,000 people if necessary.

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-lab-Sanof...

Not sure what the status is on other generic pharma companies who produce it. I know Teva produces chloroquine, but not hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) which is apparently "3x more effective" with coronavirus, and is mostly based in the US (NJ). I'm sure they've all been aware of this since February at a minimum when it first made the rounds as a possible treatment.

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