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GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

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Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#71

Post by [deleted] »

MegaButts wrote: post #54
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why GM or Ford is the one on top of list for this endeavor? Ford and GM were massive manufacturers when WWII reared its head. That gives them a rich history of wartime production [1]. The principal cost in these sorts of shifts can be bureaucratic. Having cultural capital to call on is invaluable. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_U...

> Having cultural capital to call on is invaluable. How similar is the culture today compared to 75+ years ago?

[deleted]

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#72

Post by frank2 »

lightgreen wrote: post #68
vvanders wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that the virus can live for up to 9 days on metal, glass or plastic[1] I'm not sure that mandatory hand washing is going to do much in an assembly line where everyone interacts directly vehicles on the line. [1] https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-670...

I think they work in gloves ( https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/6/26/18744304/c... for the picture).

a factory full of people using gloves and alcohol sanitizers will spread the virus unless the people are trained and experienced in sterile technique.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#73

Post by dmix »

lightgreen wrote: post #29
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is not whether or not Musk owes it to anyone. But that some people claim to be making the world a better place, and others batten down and actually do make the world a better place. And usually the latter is a lot less glamorous than the former.

Making the ventilators is not the only way to make world a better place. I consider my daytime job making the world a better place even in these dark days. But I don't work at ventilators factoy (or in hospital, or in anything directly related to coronavirus). (Edit: clarification; cleanup)

Talking about downvoting is very taboo on HN. It's in the FAQ/guidelines.

Relax, I've had countless comments start off downvoted then turn into +30 by the end of the day. It's a silly thing to get upset about, as long as you originally commented with earnest intentions there's nothing to worry about (even being wrong, if misunderstood then try harder next time to communicate it better).

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#74

Post by danenania »

cheese4242 wrote: post #57
danenania wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing. It shows us that the power law is at work in government effectiveness. A capable executive branch can get orders of magnitude more accomplished in a given timeframe than an inept one. It’s likely that thousands will die who didn’t have to because many American voters forgot the importance of a baseline level of administrative competence. Hopefully this will remind them.

I'm not convinced things would have played out much differently under any other administration to be honest. Note that many other western countries are struggling as well.

It seems indisputable that if we had manufactured a million tests in the first two weeks after cases started showing up, we’d be a lot better off right now. And realistically, “a lot” is probably a massive understatement.

Rare as they are in politics, we have a case where two presidential administrations faced almost directly analogous challenges. The results would appear to speak for themselves.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#76

Post by _2d30 »

lightgreen wrote: post #65
_2d30 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an idea of civic and social duty. The basic idea is that when one's society faces an existential crisis then those in that society with the means to help have a duty to do so. This is because the society in which they exist has provided them with a social structure that has, ideally, provided them with stability, some amount of prosperity, etc. It seems some people don't believe in this. It's sad. This isn't…

May I add a controversial comment again please? It will be downvoted again, sadly, I'll create a new account after this thread. People who say that Musk should use all his resources to help society, usually do nothing themselves (I'm not speaking about you personally). It's pure virtue signalling. Elon musk can loose 10% of his money switching from producing Teslas to producing ventilators. But everyone can use their…

There's nothing controversial about saying some people demand from others that which they won't give themselves. The point, though, as I made in my response to yours, is that people's duty will vary by their means. Some people won't be able to do anything more in this case to help society than simple sheltering in place, some may just be able to donate a few dollars here and there but some people have the ability, because they own the capital, to make outsized impacts.

That said, it is classic whataboutism in this context. That some demand more than they will give doesn't absolve someone of their civic duty in an existential crisis.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#77

Post by hodgesrm »

thereare5lights wrote: post #67

> There are going to be a lot of comments about how we messed up, wasted time, etc., but they miss the point. That, ironically, misses the point of the existing comments about how we wasted time. By wasting time, lots of people are going to die that didn't need to die. None of that has to do with mobilization itself or the issues that we run into during mobilization, it has to do with when we decided to mobilize.

At the risk of being argumentative I would point out that many Americans died unnecessarily at the beginning of WWII as well. This is a common pattern in wars.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#78

Post by wbl »

wyattpeak wrote: post #36
chii wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the correct response should look like an overreaction in hindsight. But it's tough to explain the cost of the overreaction if said overreaction prevented all of these problems. I make the analogy with an engineer receiving accolades for fixing bugs and outages with heroic effort. But the engineer that creates trouble free code, that never has any problems, but takes a long time to create code that's bug free seems to…

Yes, it probably will look like an overreaction, but that doesn't provide carte-blanche to overreact every time there's a new virus. As GP mentioned, this happens every few years. Most of the time, it fizzles out. We can't transition all production to hospital equipment every few years, even if it is the right call twice a century. I have often reprimanded (and have in turn been reprimanded) for overengineering a sol…

Most of the time it's a new flu for which we can make a vaccine quickly and isn't a huge threat. This one we knew was novel, a spreader and a killer.

Re: GM’s CEO Offers to Make Ventilators in WWII-Style Mobilization

#79

Post by JunkDNA »

asdfman123 wrote: post #2

If we were halfway rational, we would have started this in January. Failing that, start now.

Have you ever been in an executive leadership position that required you to make tough decisions? As someone who recently has entered this realm, let me tell you: most of the decisions in front of you are essentially choices between a whole bunch of options that all have one thing in common: they totally suck. You learn quickly that you are going to make harmful decisions because sometimes a good option isn’t in the hand life has dealt you. It’s the nature of the gig. A true executive leader makes a decision quickly and moves on. When they recognize they have made a bad decision (often with more data now available), they change their mind. Most bad leaders are incapable of doing this last bit. They dig in and hold their ground. The good ones just switch. They won’t even admit it because of ego (Steve Jobs is a great example outside politics of someone with this behavior).

If the US had gone into lockdown in January, the ACLU might have sued the government in court (or another civil liberties org). The UAW would have fought GM on shutting down the plants (let alone the shareholders!). College students would be protesting encroachment on civil liberties. Businesses would have been screaming. The stock market would have gone into a tailspin. People in a free society would have flouted the orders out of civil disobedience. For all this stuff to actually work in a free country, a significant percentage of the population has to believe the threat and cooperate. I’m a highly educated person with a degree in molecular biology. I know all about viral illness and epidemics. Even I did not come around on the severity of this until last week (Despite reading all the articles!). It just pattern matched against all the other pandemics that were a big deal in Asia and elsewhere, but didn’t really impact daily life in the US.

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