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Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

governor.wa.gov

191–200 of 568 posts

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more OK, because the pool of customers is constantly rotating while the pool of line cooks is mostly static. Incidental contact from picking up food is much less infectious than breathing the same air for an hour.

What? All the cooks are breathing the same air for an entire shift, in a smaller, hotter, enclosed area.

Right. What matters is that they’re the same set of cooks, so if an infection spreads the number of people it can spread to is limited.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#192
post #111
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid19 is closer to SARS than the flu, and is known to cause permanent lung, kidney, and testicle damage, even in young and healthy patients. Even among young patients, the ICU rate is as high as 10%. A low mortality rate for young people assumes access to an ICU. All of New York State only has about 600 unoccupied ICU beds. If the number of infections in New York breaches 6,000, the fatality rate among young people…

Those are some important facts, thanks for sharing. I’d like to see the probability of healthy people getting permanent damage however. That would change my mind. Until then the extremely low fatality and infection rate for average people, as well as the incubation period being so long that it’s unrealistic to contain it, is enough for me not to worry about it.

You may have to worry about rioting and looting however.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being selfish. Everything isn't just about you.

reedx8's post is about reedx8's level of worry and personal risk assessment, which is 100% about reedx8.

Still fair to callout someone that only considers personal risk for being selfish.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#194
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know what makes people like you go online and post this type of incorrect and harmful advice in such a smug fashion. All I can say is you need to educate yourself.

I posted the relevant facts. Please post your relevant facts to counter them. I’ve done my research and until those core facts change my viewpoint remains.

You've posted incorrect and incomplete "facts". Many others in this thread has posted more complete data, please educate yourself and also consider those around you that are more vulnerable.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#195
post #88

My Daughter was working as a temp between jobs and the work has now been stopped, she had two second interviews planned in Sydney this week now both positions have been retracted and nobody hiring or interviewing, she has about 7 weeks of cash savings and 4 months lease on a rental. Oh and no unemployment benefit or subsidies as she is New Zealander working in Australia. Young People at the lowest risk from this viru…

> The UK's answer to the problem is starting to look a lot more sensible than total economic chaos being caused by all other methods. The UK's answer to the problem may result in manyfold more dead than this approach. We won't be able to know until after the fact. In that state of unknown, I prefer the approach that values lives over dollars.

Has anyone thought about what will happen once other countries start getting better? They might as well quarantine the UK as a redzone area.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#196
post #42

This is going to be an economic catastrophe unless there's somehow a nationwide bailout to literally all brick and mortar businesses. I know of several local bar/restaurants that are considering shutting down for good, and a colleague near Melbourne told me of 4 that already have (I'm eastern US). Even if this all blows over in 3 months, we'll have a huge surge in homelessness and folks needing social assistance acro…

Such a bailout is feasible. During the financial crisis houses were physically built and purchased without enough people with the income to cover the loan. The difference here is that there is no underlying financial issue. People will still want to go to restaurants and bars after this is over, and it will end.

> The difference here is that there is no underlying financial issue.

This is like looking at just the income statement as sign of business health. Balance sheet and cash flow are pretty important.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#197
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a bailout is feasible. During the financial crisis houses were physically built and purchased without enough people with the income to cover the loan. The difference here is that there is no underlying financial issue. People will still want to go to restaurants and bars after this is over, and it will end.

There may be no underlying financial issue, but percentage wise we're going down much faster. September to Oct 2008 was a 9.5% drop (steepest month drop). Past 30 days was a 20.5% drop. Tracking s&p 500.

Stock market is a tricky gauge. People sell for all sorts of reasons even if some of it is rational. Always good to remember that the fact that there’s a sale also means there’s a buyer. Another fact is there could be large number of shares that never traded. It’s hard to dissect this information from price alone. All we know from a dip is that there’s more demand to sell than buy. That’s hardly enough information to see the full picture.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Seattle resident here... I wonder if we're only a few days away from a Hubei/Italy-style lockdown where you can't go outside except for groceries and pharmaceuticals. Is there precedent for that in American history?

No precedent for it, and a lot of Supreme Court precedent against it. Nonetheless, as an also Seattle resident, it has dramatically changed the city through voluntary behavior of the population. This has been an incredibly destructive blow to everyone in the formerly thriving restaurant and bar industry in the city.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/us/coronavirus-quarantine...

> The C.D.C. rewrote its quarantine guidelines in 2017 and they have never been tested in court. The Supreme Court has also never dealt with an infectious disease quarantine case, [Lawrence O. Gostin, a professor at Georgetown University Law School who specializes in public health law] said.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#199
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They announced $50 billion in SBA loans (up to $2 million per business) for small and medium businesses. Interest rate is 3.75%. These kind of funds will help a lot of businesses float through: https://www.sba.gov/about-sba/sba-newsroom/press-releases-me...

Those numbers are atrocious. But if SBA is offering that I wonder what small business loans from banks will look like, 1-1.5%?

Atrocious? For an unsecured loan?

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#200

“Restaurants will be allowed to provide take-out and delivery services but no in-person dining will be permitted. I live an SRO. I don't have a kitchen. I currently don't have a fridge. I have a small grill and some shelving to store stuff. I eat a lot of takeout. I'm glad to see I can still get takeout. But, wow. This is beginning to look pretty scary. I was homeless for a few years. The quarantine/containment measu…

A substantial number care about the hiring supply crisis and are YIMBYs (even though my yard is currently at risk). Beyond advocacy we and many others donate to support our neighbors and additionally support the serious tax support supplied. It's not perfect and systemic changes could help a lot but it is what we do locally and as a locality, what we are able to do. I'm sure there are naysayer opinions and I'll check…

Even better would be concrete solution specifications (link to something of substance?).

We've torn down about a million SROs in recent decades and zoned out of existence a lot of housing options that are being termed Missing Middle Housing.

The current YIMBY movement and Missing Middle Advocacy is the latest attempt to try to address this issue. New Urbanism was a previous one.

None of them get at the roots of the problem, which date to "the boys" returning home from WW2 and the birth of the modern American suburb.

In a nutshell, the vast majority of our housing financing mechanisms, tax incentives, etc etc are aimed at helping people get single family detached homes and homes today are more than twice the size they were in the 1950s while housing about one less person.

So our housing policies have caused "home inflation" in some sense. Homes are bigger and have more amenities -- or don't exist at all.

We now expect single people to rent a place designed for a nuclear family and get roommates to fill the empty bedrooms and split the rent. Then we make movies, like Single White Female, about what a nightmare it is to be forced to make ends meet by living with a total stranger and do nothing to change our policies.

I've made several stabs at trying to write about this, but none of that has gotten any traction.

Here's a few things by me:

http://projectsro.blogspot.com/2019/11/americas-housing-ghos...

https://americanhomeworks.blogspot.com/

https://streetlifesolutions.blogspot.com/2018/12/the-missing...

You are right that posting on the internet is mostly a waste of time. But I'm medically handicapped, so it's where I spend the majority of my time, though I would prefer to actually have a life. I simply don't.

I am involved in stuff locally in my small town. I'm no one important and it may never lead to better housing here. On the upside, the local police department does hand out my fliers for homeless resources -- which is mostly websites, mostly written by me. So maybe the time I spend online isn't a total waste.

Have a great day.

Edit: Those are not intended to be "substantive" supporting links. I've studied this problem space for decades. I wanted to be an urban planner before life got in the way. I don't know of any other sources that will say exactly what I would like them to say. Sorry.

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