Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars • Hacker News Board

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#161

Post by ncallaway » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:10 AM UTC

jandrewrogers wrote: post #87

Analemma_ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Seattle resident here... I wonder if we're only a few days away from a Hubei/Italy-style lockdown where you can't go outside except for groceries and pharmaceuticals. Is there precedent for that in American history?

No precedent for it, and a lot of Supreme Court precedent against it. Nonetheless, as an also Seattle resident, it has dramatically changed the city through voluntary behavior of the population. This has been an incredibly destructive blow to everyone in the formerly thriving restaurant and bar industry in the city.

> No precedent for it, and a lot of Supreme Court precedent against it

Could you cite some of that precedent? When I did my research around quarantines, the things I found said that precedent was very thin. What precedent there was typically was extremely deferential to government responses during emergencies and pandemic outbreaks.

I didn't find any SCOTUS cases myself, so I would be very curious to read the SCOTUS precedent against it.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#162

Post by intopieces » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:10 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #129

reedx8 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are some important facts, thanks for sharing. I’d like to see the probability of healthy people getting permanent damage however. That would change my mind. Until then the extremely low fatality and infection rate for average people, as well as the incubation period being so long that it’s unrealistic to contain it, is enough for me not to worry about it.

You're being selfish. Everything isn't just about you.

reedx8's post is about reedx8's level of worry and personal risk assessment, which is 100% about reedx8.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#163

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:10 AM UTC

listenallyall wrote: post #133

dhosek wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Illinois announced restaurants and bars closed except for pickup/delivery effective after close of business on Monday.

Help me understand this logic... it's not OK for customers to be a few feet away from other people in the dining area of a restaurant, but it's OK for low-paid (and often undocumented) line cooks and chefs, etc, to be right next to each other, interacting, sweating and toiling away in a hot kitchen? These people are heroes if they choose to show up for work, especially since takeout orders hardly tip.

It’s more OK, because the pool of customers is constantly rotating while the pool of line cooks is mostly static. Incidental contact from picking up food is much less infectious than breathing the same air for an hour.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#164

Post by jimmaswell » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:10 AM UTC

lsllc wrote: post #25

Gov. Baker has done the same today in Massachusetts. A one month ban on on-site service starting Tuesday. Any food establishment will be allowed to do delivery or take out even if they didn't previously have a license for it. https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2020/03/15/charlie-ba... EDIT: It's until April 5th, so 3 weeks not a month: https://whdh.com/news/all-mass-restaurants-and-bars-ordered-...

A license needed for delivery/takeout? How is that justified?

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#165

Post by gnulinux » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:11 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #116

It's probably best if we aggregate these links in one place rather than having a separate thread for each new location. (Similarly to what we did at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22550840 ) NYC: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22589463 California ("calls for", not enforced): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22587062 Others?

MA: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/26-new-coronavirus-case...

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#166

Post by ncallaway » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

dkdk8283 wrote: post #131

I’m probably in the minority but I lean towards the UK model. My suspicion is that the mortality rate is lower due to inadequate testing. Call me a cynic but after 9/11 I’m weary of temporary measures that become permanent in one way or another.

I'm going to go ahead and call you a cynic here.

Do you really think there's any way that the State of Washington will be permanently banning events over 50 people?

Do you really think there's any way that the State of Washington will be permanently preventing the operation of bars, dine-in restaurants, and entertainment facilities?

I'm generally pretty skeptical of creeping government powers myself, but this just...doesn't seem like a place where the government is going to keep these things shut down permanently. Which of these enacted bans are you concerned about becoming permanent?

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#167

Post by gnulinux » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

This is good. You can find in this thread that other states are following the suit. This might, just might if we're lucky, that the curve will start becoming quadratic and then logarithmic.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#168

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

mc3 wrote: post #127

cavisne wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a bailout is feasible. During the financial crisis houses were physically built and purchased without enough people with the income to cover the loan. The difference here is that there is no underlying financial issue. People will still want to go to restaurants and bars after this is over, and it will end.

What about solvency, and the knock on effect to creditors. They can't pay the booze supplier and they go out of business etc. This could go on for months. Most businesses don't make those sweet SaaS margins. Same for airlines.

Creditors can experience some of the pain that they normally inflict on others. They are not sacrosanct and are the least important parties in economic relations during an emergency. As normality is restored, they will have new opportunities during the ensuing large scale financial restructuring.

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#169

Post by o-__-o » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

reedx8 wrote: post #111

Taek wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid19 is closer to SARS than the flu, and is known to cause permanent lung, kidney, and testicle damage, even in young and healthy patients. Even among young patients, the ICU rate is as high as 10%. A low mortality rate for young people assumes access to an ICU. All of New York State only has about 600 unoccupied ICU beds. If the number of infections in New York breaches 6,000, the fatality rate among young people…

Those are some important facts, thanks for sharing. I’d like to see the probability of healthy people getting permanent damage however. That would change my mind. Until then the extremely low fatality and infection rate for average people, as well as the incubation period being so long that it’s unrealistic to contain it, is enough for me not to worry about it.

Uh well it causes bilateral interstitial pneumonia which is inflammation that causes irreversible scarring around the air sacs. If you get it you will have scarring. If you get it badly you will have bad scarring that will impact your future health. If you have an underlying health problem esp if it involves your respiratory system you are fucked. Combine all of this with thousands of your neighbors Unable to breath creates a very interesting union in the ER.

Maybe the Wikipedia article on bilateral interstitial pneumonia will change your mind?

Re: Washington governor announces shutdown of restaurants, bars

#170

Post by erikerikson » Mon, Mar 16, 2020, 4:14 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #15

“Restaurants will be allowed to provide take-out and delivery services but no in-person dining will be permitted. I live an SRO. I don't have a kitchen. I currently don't have a fridge. I have a small grill and some shelving to store stuff. I eat a lot of takeout. I'm glad to see I can still get takeout. But, wow. This is beginning to look pretty scary. I was homeless for a few years. The quarantine/containment measu…

A substantial number care about the hiring supply crisis and are YIMBYs (even though my yard is currently at risk). Beyond advocacy we and many others donate to support our neighbors and additionally support the serious tax support supplied. It's not perfect and systemic changes could help a lot but it is what we do locally and as a locality, what we are able to do. I'm sure there are naysayer opinions and I'll check back to read them if someone would be so kind as to leave some. Even better would be concrete solution specifications (link to something of substance?). Not that I'll likely reply, debating on the internet seems a low value use of time.