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Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

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Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#81

Post by ohiovr »

greggman3 wrote: post #51
ohiovr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tylonol is safer than ibuprofen if you have covid19. But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts. But I will make an exception for you. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

your link does not support what you wrote. You wrote > "Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system" The article says > anti-inflammatory drugs are known to be a risk for those with infectious illnesses because they tend to diminish the response of the body’s immune system. weakens the immune system != weakens the response of the immune system As for ibuprofen vs tylonol…

The taking of anti-inflammatories [ibuprofen, cortisone … ] could be a factor in aggravating the infection. In case of fever, take paracetamol. If you are already taking anti-inflammatory drugs, ask your doctor’s advice.”

Ok I'm done in this thread now

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#82

Post by he0001 »

mrb wrote: post #36

French sources specifically mention severe cases of covid-19 in "young and healthy" patients (eg. see https://lefigaro.fr/sciences/coronavirus-alerte-sur-l-ibupro... ) but this important piece of information has NOT been relayed by international medias. Jean Paul Hamon, medical doctor and president of the Federation of French Doctors said on TV to NOT take NSAIDs (anti-inflammatory drugs) if #covid19 is suspected. Th…

It seems like Switzerland is also recommending this and referring to a study done on mice. I don’t have links since they most likely in French/German.

Edit: link to recommendation https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/de/home/das-bag/aktuell/news/ne...

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#83

Post by ohiovr »

mathgeek wrote: post #40
ohiovr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tylonol is safer than ibuprofen if you have covid19. But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts. But I will make an exception for you. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

> But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts. We certainly don't have to make them in all posts, but I think it's reasonable to request that we make them in what are hopefully a small number of posts wherein we offer medical advice.

No one should be accepting anything online as medical advice. It's like high finance, if you base every purchase on what you read on Yahoo finance you are going to lose your shirt. If you take health advice online you might die. Nobody is giving advice here. We are having a discussion.

Read not to contradict and confute; nor to believe and take for granted; nor to find talk and discourse; but to weigh and consider.

- Bacon

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#84

Post by exdsq »

guerrilla wrote: post #58
exdsq wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason it's headline news at the moment is because some minister tweeted about the lancet letter this thread is talking about. It's a letter that's not gone through peer review which definitely shouldn't be taken as an official source! Numerous doctors on Twitter have come out and said we shouldn't listen to it too. Examples: https://twitter.com/notdred/status/1238806682458882049 https://twitter.com/angie_rasmuss…

That the advice of an official is unfounded doesn't mean there wasn't official advice which was what was in question not its veracity.

I'd strongly argue a minister tweeting, even when it is the health minister, isn't official advice in the sense of national guidelines.

I actually think he was incredibly stupid for tweeting that - he should know better than to write what would obviously cause a media stir based on an open non-reviewed letter.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#85

Post by WilsonPaige »

takeda wrote: post #22
jbattle wrote: post #11

After a couple of asthmatic attacks after taking aspirin and ibuprofen I went to an allergist and she told me that I have an allergic reaction to all NSAIDs. The syndrome is called 'NSAIDs-Exacerbated Respiratory Disease'. I felt equally proud and ashamed that the medical establishment officially diagnosed me as a NERD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAID_hypersensitivity_reactio...

Sadly NERD doesn't refer to you, but to the disease ;P

Yet he nonetheless does have the "NERD disease".

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#86

Post by forkexec »

dukha wrote: post #46
mrb wrote: post #36

French sources specifically mention severe cases of covid-19 in "young and healthy" patients (eg. see https://lefigaro.fr/sciences/coronavirus-alerte-sur-l-ibupro... ) but this important piece of information has NOT been relayed by international medias. Jean Paul Hamon, medical doctor and president of the Federation of French Doctors said on TV to NOT take NSAIDs (anti-inflammatory drugs) if #covid19 is suspected. Th…

Translation from French: paracetamol is preferred over nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID). Dose of paracetamol should not exceed 3g/day and doses should be spaced throughout the day.

Ibuprofen already is known to lead to GI perforation and mental decline in the elderly, so there's rarely a compelling reason to administer it. Paracetamol is much safer over short durations for analgesic and antipyretic properties generally unless acute or chronic liver injury is suspected.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#87

Post by forkexec »

Flow wrote: post #61
dukha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Translation from French: paracetamol is preferred over nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID). Dose of paracetamol should not exceed 3g/day and doses should be spaced throughout the day.

Maybe there are different recommendations where you live, but here in Sweden and most of the hits on a web search suggest max dosage of paracetamol is 4g/day spread out.

Upper tolerable dosage isn't as simple as one number for everyone. How much someone can take depends on how long someone takes it, their relative health and their mass dosage (mg/kg). I could take 2g c.i. (6g/day) for weeks (114 kg, large healthy liver, younger) but a little grandmother (40 kg) couldn't.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#88

Post by sjg007 »

takeda wrote: post #13
mlrtime wrote: post #4

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

Was about to say this. They advise is to use acetaminophen. It really comes down how covid-19 kills people, whether it is by directly attacking the body, or by triggering cytokine release syndrome (CRS). In later case, medication that suppresses the immune system would be better, but in former case it could make things worse.

They think the virus enters the cell via Ace2 receptors. The hypothesis is these drugs increase ace2 receptor expression which makes the cells more likely to get infected. Your lung, heart and kidney cells express this receptor.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#89

Post by washadjeffmad »

dmurray wrote: post #5

Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe. All over the world they are prescribed for any kind of pain, fever, inflammation or discomfort. Of course, there are some known side effects, but they are generally considered minor. Does it make sense that a virus would evolve to favour these conditions? Or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I guess it depends on whether the virus being "worse…

> Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe

NSAIDs are considerably more harmful than might be assumed from their availability and public perception. Over the past half decade, I've heard doctors recommending with increasing frequency against cessation of OTC NSAID use. Research available on Pubmed and NCBI seems to agree.

I'm also in a common but at-risk group for Covid-19 that should never use NSAIDs, but I think qualifications of their safety shouldn't be accepted outside of any but a very loose definition of 'generally'.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#90

Post by bad_user »

jcadam wrote: post #59
rakejake wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor. Paracetamol is probably as safe as it gets when it comes to drugs in its class. Overdosing is not all that simple and the numbers are high because of the availability and popularity of Paracetamol as a pain-killer and its silent use as a side ingredient in many products. Paracetamol is not as good as Ibuprofen when it comes to killing pain (IMHO), so maybe this causes a tendency to overd…

I have GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease) along with mild asthma, and NSAIDs are a big no-no for me. When I was in the Army, the docs handed out bottles of 800mg Ibuprofen tablets like candy for virtually any complaint - I took them because I was young and invincible back then. These days, I rarely take anything for headaches. If it's bad enough, I'll take the occasional Tylenol (usually after my wife orders me t…

I too suffer from allergic asthma and GERD.

If you want to manage your GERD, diet is a big driver. Ever since I lost weight and changed my eating habits, I haven't had a single GERD episode and it's been two years.

In my weight loss journey I went through keto, then paleo, now I'm doing 40 days of high carb vegan (for lent) — macro composition doesn't matter that much, what I think mattered was the weight loss itself and eating whole foods.

It's interesting because I used to get GERD episodes from kidney beans or bananas and nowadays I eat impressive amounts with no GERD in sight. I figured that if I am to survive this month on veganism, I have to eat a lot of beans, lentils, etc. I am no longer drinking carbonated beverages, no beer or sodas, so that might have something to do with it. The general idea being that some trigger foods might not be a problem in the context of a healthy diet and a body weight that's close to normal.

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I have allergic asthma and while it's been under control for years, with me requiring no treatment, when I was in my twenties I went through really rough periods, with me ending up in ICUs with difficulty breathing.

I also heard that extensive use of Ibuprofen can worsen asthma episodes and this is what happened in my twenties, however my asthma is nowadays under control, my immune system seems to be working normally and even when catching a cold, I seem to tolerate Ibuprofen quite well.

Just so we are clear, I'm now 37 and my tolerance of Ibuprofen and similar improved a lot since my twenties, so it can go in the other direction.

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For many people giving up on painkillers isn't an option. My wife gets migraines that are so bad it makes her puke.

I'm writing this to say that GERD and allergic asthma are many times manageable with the proper treatment and a lifestyle change.

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