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Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

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Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#31

Post by throwawayy477 »

neuronic wrote: post #26
throwawayy477 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? Because I don't know the official terminology. >What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? Because of where I work I have been given "primary sources", but of course you are free to not believe me. This is my own sentiment, feel free to look things up yourself. > no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Not in the US, maybe,…

If any official source, regardless of country, recommends to abstain from ibuprofen I would simply like to know. I neither live in the US nor think that scientists and medical personnel in other country are less educated or trained. I think it's about distinguishing important information from stuff people randomly write online because a non-peer reviewed study made a hypothesis . The goal is for everyone around the g…

First hit on google "coronavirus ibuprofen"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

>French authorities have warned that widely used over-the-counter anti-inflammatory drugs may worsen the coronavirus.

>The country’s health minister, Olivier Véran, who is a qualified doctor and neurologist, tweeted on Saturday: “The taking of anti-inflammatories [ibuprofen, cortisone … ] could be a factor in aggravating the infection. In case of fever, take paracetamol. If you are already taking anti-inflammatory drugs, ask your doctor’s advice.”

This is HN right? I'm sure when you find an ImportError you know how to look things up on SO, how come people have trouble transferring this very simple knowledge-learning process to other domains?

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#32

Post by topkai22 »

zackmorris wrote: post #19

I'm wondering if some of the downside of anti-inflammatories is that they often lower fevers. A fever is the body's natural response to infection, to raise the rate of chemical reactions and make more immune cells: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111101130200.h... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869589/ I also think that this is part of the mechanism that makes zinc effective against virus…

Good summary, althoughI would be more forceful about aspirin- don't use it for children under 12 without a medical professional recommending it. While Reyes syndrome is rare, acetaminophen and ibuprofen are equally effective, available, and do not carry the risk.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#33

Post by [deleted] »

neuronic wrote: post #26
throwawayy477 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? Because I don't know the official terminology. >What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? Because of where I work I have been given "primary sources", but of course you are free to not believe me. This is my own sentiment, feel free to look things up yourself. > no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Not in the US, maybe,…

If any official source, regardless of country, recommends to abstain from ibuprofen I would simply like to know. I neither live in the US nor think that scientists and medical personnel in other country are less educated or trained. I think it's about distinguishing important information from stuff people randomly write online because a non-peer reviewed study made a hypothesis . The goal is for everyone around the g…

[deleted]

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#34

Post by [deleted] »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #25
throwawayy477 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous. In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ib…

This is precisely the sort of comment that not only makes social networking a medium with nearly no real value, but actually dangerous. The commentator comes here with some assumptions, perhaps some hearsay, and an emotional attachment to their position and make the statement as though it's fact. In this comment, you know what's missing? Actual knowledge, actual reasoning, and actual facts to back up the his/her clai…

[deleted]

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#35

Post by ohiovr »

sbuttgereit wrote: post #25
throwawayy477 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous. In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ib…

This is precisely the sort of comment that not only makes social networking a medium with nearly no real value, but actually dangerous. The commentator comes here with some assumptions, perhaps some hearsay, and an emotional attachment to their position and make the statement as though it's fact. In this comment, you know what's missing? Actual knowledge, actual reasoning, and actual facts to back up the his/her clai…

tylonol is safer than ibuprofen if you have covid19. But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts.

But I will make an exception for you. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#36

Post by mrb »

French sources specifically mention severe cases of covid-19 in "young and healthy" patients (eg. see https://lefigaro.fr/sciences/coronavirus-alerte-sur-l-ibupro... ) but this important piece of information has NOT been relayed by international medias.

Jean Paul Hamon, medical doctor and president of the Federation of French Doctors said on TV to NOT take NSAIDs (anti-inflammatory drugs) if #covid19 is suspected. The ONLY common point among young covid-19 patients they have witnessed in critical care centers in France was that they all took NSAIDs.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#37

Post by rakejake »

throwanem wrote: post #28
dmurray wrote: post #5

Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe. All over the world they are prescribed for any kind of pain, fever, inflammation or discomfort. Of course, there are some known side effects, but they are generally considered minor. Does it make sense that a virus would evolve to favour these conditions? Or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I guess it depends on whether the virus being "worse…

Paracetamol (acetaminophen) isn't all that safe. Too high a dose can quickly and irreversibly damage your liver. Many people have died this way. If you're intending to take paracetamol long term, you can do worse than to reduce the stated maximum daily dose on the bottle by 1/4 or 1/2. You'll be less comfortable, sure. But it's called a "liver" because you need one to live. So it's worth a little extra discomfort to…

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor.

Paracetamol is probably as safe as it gets when it comes to drugs in its class. Overdosing is not all that simple and the numbers are high because of the availability and popularity of Paracetamol as a pain-killer and its silent use as a side ingredient in many products. Paracetamol is not as good as Ibuprofen when it comes to killing pain (IMHO), so maybe this causes a tendency to overdose in people who have built a tolerance to the drug.

To get liver damage, you have to exceed the daily recommended maximum of 4g of Paracetamol. Wiki says paracetomol toxicity is likely if your consumption exceeds 7g in a day [1]. Assuming you are a consuming Paracetamol in the form of OTC pills, say the super strength ones which are 500mg, you have to consume like 15 pills in a day. Overdosing from a combination of drugs containing paracetamol is much more likely. Most people don't realize the presence of the other ingredient.

For short term use, Ibuprofen is said to have a similar safety profile to Paracetamol, though its classification as an NSAID lends to its perception as a slightly less safe drug. Long term, it causes stomach and kidney damage.[2]

Anecdotally, Ibuprofen is much better at killing my pain, but I also have some negative reactions like increased reflux. Technically, Paracetamol also increases acidity but I tolerate it much better. I've mostly stopped using NSAIDs but I realize this is not possible for a lot of people.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_poisoning#Cause

[2]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5306275/

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#38

Post by dharma1 »

geofft wrote: post #15

The actual title of this article is, "Are patients with hypertension and diabetes mellitus at increased risk for COVID-19 infection?" The relevant portion about ibuprofen, lightly edited to make it more readable, is: > Coronaviruses bind to their target cells through ACE2. The expression of ACE2 is substantially increased in patients with diabetes, who are treated with ACE inhibitors and ARBs. Hypertension is also tr…

it's worth watching this lecture from last week to understand the role of ACE2 in SARS-CoV-1 and SARS-CoV-2 - very informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAW6VBWTiAA

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#40

Post by mathgeek »

ohiovr wrote: post #35
sbuttgereit wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely the sort of comment that not only makes social networking a medium with nearly no real value, but actually dangerous. The commentator comes here with some assumptions, perhaps some hearsay, and an emotional attachment to their position and make the statement as though it's fact. In this comment, you know what's missing? Actual knowledge, actual reasoning, and actual facts to back up the his/her clai…

tylonol is safer than ibuprofen if you have covid19. But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts. But I will make an exception for you. https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

> But you don't have to believe me as I read and don't make bibliographies in all of my posts.

We certainly don't have to make them in all posts, but I think it's reasonable to request that we make them in what are hopefully a small number of posts wherein we offer medical advice.

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