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Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

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Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#11
After a couple of asthmatic attacks after taking aspirin and ibuprofen I went to an allergist and she told me that I have an allergic reaction to all NSAIDs.

The syndrome is called 'NSAIDs-Exacerbated Respiratory Disease'.

I felt equally proud and ashamed that the medical establishment officially diagnosed me as a NERD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAID_hypersensitivity_reactio...

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#13
post #4

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammat...

Was about to say this.

They advise is to use acetaminophen.

It really comes down how covid-19 kills people, whether it is by directly attacking the body, or by triggering cytokine release syndrome (CRS).

In later case, medication that suppresses the immune system would be better, but in former case it could make things worse.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#14
post #5

Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe. All over the world they are prescribed for any kind of pain, fever, inflammation or discomfort. Of course, there are some known side effects, but they are generally considered minor. Does it make sense that a virus would evolve to favour these conditions? Or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I guess it depends on whether the virus being "worse…

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous.

In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ibuprofen.

Please don't take ibuprofen.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#15
The actual title of this article is, "Are patients with hypertension and diabetes mellitus at increased risk for COVID-19 infection?"

The relevant portion about ibuprofen, lightly edited to make it more readable, is:

> Coronaviruses bind to their target cells through ACE2. The expression of ACE2 is substantially increased in patients with diabetes, who are treated with ACE inhibitors and ARBs. Hypertension is also treated with ACE inhibitors and ARBs, which results in an upregulation of ACE2. ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19.

More broadly, they're saying that many of the medical notes of patients who died mentioned that the patients also had diabetes or hypertension, and they're wondering if the correlation is about the treatment for those conditions and not about the conditions themselves.

It's not clear to me whether they're implying that anyone who takes ibuprofen (e.g. for a headache or even for a COVID-19 fever) will have more ACE2 and therefore be more susceptible to severe and fatal COVID-19, or if that effect only happens in the context of treatment for diabetes and hypertension. I can see how you can read it in the first way, but it feels like they would have titled it clearer if that were what they were actually saying.

In particular, there is plenty of advice for people with mild COVID-19 cases to do the normal things they'd do to take care of a flu at home, including take ibuprofen. If that's a bad idea, I feel like they would have said that more loudly.

(For instance - does it matter whether you've got more ACE2 if you're already infected and trying to keep the symptoms under control?)

EDIT: Thanks to 'FeteCommuniste in another comment for linking this Twitter thread https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/12389469379166822... which points out that this is an un-peer-reviewed hypothesis.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#16
post #5

Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe. All over the world they are prescribed for any kind of pain, fever, inflammation or discomfort. Of course, there are some known side effects, but they are generally considered minor. Does it make sense that a virus would evolve to favour these conditions? Or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I guess it depends on whether the virus being "worse…

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous. In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ib…

Why are you putting severe in quotation marks?

What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum?

There might be negatives to taking ibuprofen in relation to COVID-19, but so far no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Responsible institutes have not handed out such advice, nowhere.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#17
post #5

Ibuprofen, along with paracetamol, is generally considered very safe. All over the world they are prescribed for any kind of pain, fever, inflammation or discomfort. Of course, there are some known side effects, but they are generally considered minor. Does it make sense that a virus would evolve to favour these conditions? Or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I guess it depends on whether the virus being "worse…

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous. In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ib…

> In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ibuprofen.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here - are you claiming that all young people with severe cases of COVID-19 (including, for instance, 33-year-old Wenliang Li) took ibuprofen?

Or simply that there exists a small group of people such that all people in that group took ibuprofen, and there are also other young people with severe cases who did not?

Given that standard advice for young people (who are expected not to have severe cases) is to take fever-reducing medication like ibuprofen, I feel like we need a lot more information here before we can turn this correlation into causation.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#18

Bettridge's law may be wrong here... sounds like the answer is "maybe"

But this isn't even the real headline. The real headline is "Are patients with hypertension and diabetes mellitus at increased risk for COVID-19 infection?" And it's not even a headline, it's a title of a medical note to other researchers to advance a hypothesis. This isn't a news source, this is work in progress in the early stages of the scientific method.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#19
I'm wondering if some of the downside of anti-inflammatories is that they often lower fevers. A fever is the body's natural response to infection, to raise the rate of chemical reactions and make more immune cells:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111101130200.h...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4869589/

I also think that this is part of the mechanism that makes zinc effective against viruses as a catalyst.

Generally, I think that it's good to keep fevers down for non-lethal infections like the common cold, especially for children. Just beware that aspirin may cause Reye's syndrome in the young:

https://www.healthline.com/health/headache-reyes-syndrome

But for serious infections like Covid-19, maybe it would be better to maintain a relatively safe temperature of say 101-102 F (38-39 C)? I'm honestly curious to know what doctors think of this.

Re: Are patients with hypertension and diabetes at increased risk for COVID-19?

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ibuprofen is an anti-inflammation drug, which means it weakens somewhat your immune system (which is responsible for the inflammation in the first place). It makes sort of sense that taking such medication while infected with a virus for which there is no treatment can be dangerous. In related news, there have been cases of "severe" forms of Covid-19 among young people with no antecedents, all of them having taken ib…

Why are you putting severe in quotation marks? What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum? There might be negatives to taking ibuprofen in relation to COVID-19, but so far no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories. Responsible institutes have not handed out such advice, nowhere.

> Why are you putting severe in quotation marks?

Because I don't know the official terminology.

>What makes you feel qualified to give medical advice on an Internet forum?

Because of where I work I have been given "primary sources", but of course you are free to not believe me. This is my own sentiment, feel free to look things up yourself.

> no official guidelines exist. Only internet stories.

Not in the US, maybe, but such guidelines definitely exist where I live. Again, you do you

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