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Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

medicine.wustl.edu

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Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#61

Post by flexblue »

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #58
flexblue wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did my research. Also I tracked my nutrition with Cronometer in the first weeks. Not a single day did I miss on B-vitamins. If you didn't have any animal foods, you're going to be missing out on B-vitamins, because of low bioavailability[1]. > Heme iron is associated with disease in all major studies. I don‘t see a reason to ingest it. An excess of many essential nutrients and vitamins is associated with disease,…

I think it is not productive to have this discussion. I have good blood markers after 6 years on this diet. LDL of 52. BP of 101/74. So for me this diet is way healthier than the omnivorous diet that I had before. If you want to believe that animals are essential for human health, go on. But in my opinion science does not back this up. But that is my interpretation. Your thoughts on bioavailability are also outdated.…

> I have good blood markers after 6 years on this diet. LDL of 52. BP of 101/74. So for me this diet is way healthier than the omnivorous diet that I had before.

Perhaps, but we're talking about nutritional deficiencies, have you tested for all of those? A vitamin deficiency can take up to a decade to manifest in symptoms.

> If you want to believe that animals are essential for human health, go on.

I don't want to believe that, I would prefer not to have to believe that. On the other hand, many people want to believe that animals are not necessary, for ethical reasons. That causes distortion and misrepresentation, because it would be inconvenient if a plant-based diet was not entirely healthy and nutritionally complete.

> Your thoughts on bioavailability are also outdated.

Those aren't "my thoughts", that is scientific data. Show me yours.

> It has been shown for protein, iron and some vitamins that bioavailability in practice is very good for plant sources. E.g. iron is converted as good as heme iron when combined with vitamin C. And it‘s hard to avoid C on a plant based diet.

Source?

> May I ask where you get your information from?

I get it from all available sources. If Doctor So-and-so claims this-and-that, I look at the scientific publications supporting that.

On top of that, I try to look at what's plausible from an evolutionary history perspective. A plant-based diet doesn't seem plausible. That doesn't mean it's not good, of course - especially compared to a junk food diet. However, there's a lot of "ethical incentive" to misrepresent it as better than it is. You gotta watch out for that.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#62

Post by flexblue »

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #59
flexblue wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I did my research. Also I tracked my nutrition with Cronometer in the first weeks. Not a single day did I miss on B-vitamins. If you didn't have any animal foods, you're going to be missing out on B-vitamins, because of low bioavailability[1]. > Heme iron is associated with disease in all major studies. I don‘t see a reason to ingest it. An excess of many essential nutrients and vitamins is associated with disease,…

Regarding B6. The last days that I tracked I had 3-4 times the RDA of B6 with ~4mg. Even if the absorption were really low I still meet what my body needs. And other sources report way better absorption rates.

Have you measured it in the blood? Even if your B6 is fine, what about B12? That has even worse bioavailability from plants or supplements. Again, you need to measure it, furthermore B12 takes years to deplete.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#63

Post by jfritsch1984 »

flexblue wrote: post #62
jfritsch1984 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding B6. The last days that I tracked I had 3-4 times the RDA of B6 with ~4mg. Even if the absorption were really low I still meet what my body needs. And other sources report way better absorption rates.

Have you measured it in the blood? Even if your B6 is fine, what about B12? That has even worse bioavailability from plants or supplements. Again, you need to measure it, furthermore B12 takes years to deplete.

My B12 was so high I had to lower my supplementation twice. Now I only take the spray every two weeks to allow my values to get down. But even on that dose my values are at the very top of the reference range.

The problem with B12 is more with low cobalt in the soil and genetically low absorption. There are now even bioactive plant forms of B12 like water lentil.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#64

Post by jfritsch1984 »

flexblue wrote: post #62
jfritsch1984 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding B6. The last days that I tracked I had 3-4 times the RDA of B6 with ~4mg. Even if the absorption were really low I still meet what my body needs. And other sources report way better absorption rates.

Have you measured it in the blood? Even if your B6 is fine, what about B12? That has even worse bioavailability from plants or supplements. Again, you need to measure it, furthermore B12 takes years to deplete.

Who says that B12 supplementation works less good than eating meat? The last studies I read on supplementation all showed good results. Better results than among omnivorous people.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#65

Post by flexblue »

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #64
flexblue wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you measured it in the blood? Even if your B6 is fine, what about B12? That has even worse bioavailability from plants or supplements. Again, you need to measure it, furthermore B12 takes years to deplete.

Who says that B12 supplementation works less good than eating meat? The last studies I read on supplementation all showed good results. Better results than among omnivorous people.

Vitamin B12 supplements require very high doses due to poor bio-availability. You have to ask yourself, could this be a healthy diet when you effectively need a pharmacy to maintain it? What else is your body missing out on that we might not be aware of?

That's why I say a plant-based diet is science experiment with no plausible basis in evolutionary history. I'm not saying it's bad per se, I'm saying we don't actually know if it's good.

Looks like you have done your homework and are not in fact deficient, at least in terms of those biomarkers and reference values. A lot of plant-based dieters are not that diligent, affluent or educated.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#66

Post by flexblue »

jfritsch1984 wrote: post #56
flexblue wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People eat beans for decades. Why should this be an experiment? People also eat donuts for decades, that means nothing. People didn't eat beans for hundreds of thousands of years. They're not a "natural" part of the diet. They contain poorly researched plant toxins and anti-nutrients, which can are known to cause issues in sensitive people. Can you "mitigate" the problem with proper preparation? Apparently, but tha…

You say that beans are problematic but you don‘t back it up. I only have to show you that beans are just as much part of human diets as are other foods. What is the actual science that anybody on earth suffers from the consumption of beans? For donuts we see a direct correlation between sugary processed foods and obesity, T2D and other diseases. For beans you can not show this. The only thing you can show is some mec…

> What is the actual science that anybody on earth suffers from the consumption of beans?

"More than half of the world populations are affected by micronutrient malnutrition and one third of world’s population suffers from anemia and zinc deficiency, particularly in developing countries."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4325021/

> I only have to show you that beans are just as much part of human diets as are other foods.

Again, that literally means nothing. Humans can survive on very poor diets.

> For donuts we see a direct correlation between sugary processed foods and obesity, T2D and other diseases. For beans you can not show this.

Of course, I never said beans cause T2 diabetes or any other "disease of civilization". They cause nutrient deficiences in populations that are underdeveloped. As for what it does with those few people in developed nations who choose to adopt a plant-based diet, there's just no good data, yet. That's a recent phenomenon.

> The only thing you can show is some mechanistic data, where we can speculate.

Of course we have to speculate, because we don't know. You can always ask for more evidence that this-and-that is or isn't harmful in some dose. Somehow, people are very wary about synthetic toxins or pesticides, but when it comes to natural toxins that plants produce to defend themselves, we don't really pay the same kind of attention.

What's the evidence that heavy metals, or dioxin, or any of the other pollutants are harmful in the doses that we allow them in? There isn't any, that's why we allow them. Does that mean harmful effects don't exist? No. It means we don't know any better.

Legumes just happen to be the biggest offenders of natural toxins in our diet. They all have a rich history of requiring preparation to become digestible at all. We're not evolutionarily prepared to handle them, we haven't eaten them as a staple for more than a few thousand years. That's a red flag.

> In my personal opinion you are the victim of an industry that wants to sell stuff like Gundrys supplements like „Lectin buster“ and the like.

I don't care about Gundry opinions or his supplements, he's no better than your nutritionfacts guy. Also, it's not like there isn't a whole industry behind selling the plant-based diet. A much bigger industry in fact, also fueled by ideology, ethics and virtue signaling. Red flags.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#67

Post by lolc »

rland wrote: post #38
lolc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already a therapy that transfers beta cells from healthy people to T1 patients. The trouble is that the patients have to take immunosuppressants ever after to prevent the immune system from killing the cells off again. And I don't think that cells grown from stem cells would fare better, because it was the patients immune system that killed the beta cells in the first place. Your typical T1 will prefer insul…

It takes time (several months) for islet cells to get destroyed by the body. That's the origin of the "Honeymoon phase" experienced by some t1ds after diagnosis. So successful islet cell transplants last for a few months; at the beginning, the patient is nearly cured, and then their islet cells are slowly destroyed by the body. So the appeal of stem cell treatment is that you get a single booster of islet cells every…

Ah if it lasts longer I can see how it would become an option. In my case the "honeymoon" took the better part of a year and if that phase could be repeated it would definitely improve my therapy.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#68

Post by whb07 »

tintin12 wrote: post #41
whb07 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't type 2 somewhat reversible by cleaning up diet and a prolonged fast?

>> prolonged fast That can potentially kill a person with T2 through diabetic ketoacidosis(DKA). Please be careful if you refer this to someone else.

Uhh keto acidosis is not ketosis. But yeah definitely, talk to a real doctor and read the research.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#69

Post by jfritsch1984 »

flexblue wrote: post #66
jfritsch1984 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that beans are problematic but you don‘t back it up. I only have to show you that beans are just as much part of human diets as are other foods. What is the actual science that anybody on earth suffers from the consumption of beans? For donuts we see a direct correlation between sugary processed foods and obesity, T2D and other diseases. For beans you can not show this. The only thing you can show is some mec…

> What is the actual science that anybody on earth suffers from the consumption of beans? "More than half of the world populations are affected by micronutrient malnutrition and one third of world’s population suffers from anemia and zinc deficiency, particularly in developing countries." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4325021/ > I only have to show you that beans are just as much part of human diets as…

May I ask what your diet is?

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#70

Post by jfritsch1984 »

flexblue wrote: post #65
jfritsch1984 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says that B12 supplementation works less good than eating meat? The last studies I read on supplementation all showed good results. Better results than among omnivorous people.

Vitamin B12 supplements require very high doses due to poor bio-availability. You have to ask yourself, could this be a healthy diet when you effectively need a pharmacy to maintain it? What else is your body missing out on that we might not be aware of? That's why I say a plant-based diet is science experiment with no plausible basis in evolutionary history. I'm not saying it's bad per se, I'm saying we don't actual…

I think the current diet that 90% of the developed countries practice is the large experiment. Question is how long our health system can tolerate these rates of disease.
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