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Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

medicine.wustl.edu

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Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#31

Post by vikramkr »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #29
lolc wrote: post #26

> A common problem when you’re trying to transform a human stem cell into an insulin-producing beta cell — or a neuron or a heart cell —is that you also produce other cells that you don’t want In my world this is called cancer. So yeah interesting how they're actually able to tell cells how to grow. But you don't want liver cells mixed into your pancreas, do you? > But if a quarter of the cells you make are actually…

I'm not sure that having a liver cell living in the pancreas equals cancer, unless it starts replicating uncontrollably into more liver cells, and ignores normular cellular signaling.

If it's a liver cell in the pancreas, it's already ignoring normal cellular signalling. And in terms of replicating, these are derived from stem cells. Cancer is partly defined by cells becoming more stem-cell like and being able to replciate, so by definition they've already been turned into a state where they're predisposed to be cancerous (or basically are cancers by definition), and the coaxed to become a pancreatic cell, but unsuccessfully, so it's not a good place for it to go wrong.

It's a known problem though and not an insurmountable one. There's been a lot of work with encapsulation of these cells in a barrier that will prevent the barely controlled tumor that is an artificial pancreas from breaking out and wrecking havoc. And methods that are getting better at controlling these cells like the one in this thread are promising ways of mitigating this risk moving forward as well.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#32

Post by read_if_gay_ »

flexblue wrote: post #20
jfritsch1984 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you tell me why rice and beans are problematic? The studies I know are typically in favor of these kinds of food. Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for survival in elderly people. Is this some kind of carb-phobia?

In the context of T2 diabetes, white rice is a high GI food. Brown rice, legumes and grains contain plant toxins and antinutrients which are poorly researched, but at least anecdotally can cause all kinds of issues especially in sensitive people. Also, in the west, a lot of the culture of preparing these foods (such as fermenting or vigorous soaking) is bypassed. > Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for s…

Rice may be relatively high GI but it and similar foods do not usually give you type 2 diabetes. Junk food does. Rice is far cheaper than that. I don’t really think you can make the case that T2 diabetes is a poor man’s sickness.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#33

Post by pengaru »

flexblue wrote: post #30
pengaru wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bananas by themselves are not healthy food, they're very high in sugar and have little else to offer. That depends on ripeness [0], I eat a mostly green banana every morning and it doesn't have much sugar at all while keeping my bowels very regular. It's been my breakfast for decades, I'm quite healthy, and eat a diet almost entirely composed of raw produce. The rest is nuts/seeds/legumes and canned fish. I rarely…

> It's been my breakfast for decades, I'm quite healthy, and eat a diet almost entirely composed of raw produce. The rest is nuts/seeds/legumes and canned fish. You get virtually all of your macronutrients from the nuts, seeds, legumes and the fish - not the produce. > I rarely ever cook, and if I didn't go for organic produce this would be a very cheap diet except for the nuts. So it would be cheap if it was somethi…

> So it would be cheap if it was something else, but it's not.

By volume most of the "nuts" are roasted unsalted peanuts, which are very cheap, and as you know actually legumes.

I just have a taste for expensive walnuts and cashews, and like organic produce, but I'm not poor.

Everyone can afford peanuts, or peanut butter. I prefer roasted intact peanuts since there's less opportunity for fuckery like replacing peanut oil with palm oil and adding sugar.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#34

Post by jf- »

vikramkr wrote: post #31
SubiculumCode wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that having a liver cell living in the pancreas equals cancer, unless it starts replicating uncontrollably into more liver cells, and ignores normular cellular signaling.

If it's a liver cell in the pancreas, it's already ignoring normal cellular signalling. And in terms of replicating, these are derived from stem cells. Cancer is partly defined by cells becoming more stem-cell like and being able to replciate, so by definition they've already been turned into a state where they're predisposed to be cancerous (or basically are cancers by definition), and the coaxed to become a pancrea…

> And in terms of replicating, these are derived from stem cells.

All of everyone’s cells are derived from stem cells. The issue is still how prone to uncontrolled proliferation they are, not so much having a population of a particular cell type in the wrong place.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#35

Post by fred256 »

Amygaz wrote: post #7
DataDrivenMD wrote: post #4

This reminds me of the time I spent at the NIH conducting research on cancer vaccines. After lots of trial and error, I had finally found something that seemed to prevent lung cancer in mice. I rushed to show my PI the results. He listened intently and asked thoughtful questions. Once I finished, I asked if the findings would be worthy of submitting to Nature. He looked me straight in the eye and said, “I wouldn’t pu…

I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models. Then there is this thing that bugs me: amount of money spent on finding a treatment vs. preventing type 2 diabetes in the first place. Because 95% of type 2 cases are caused by life style decisions. And as climate change, healthcare costs, covid-19, and other self-inflicted societal crises we prefer to wait until it chronically…

> I stopped counting how many times we cured any forms of diabetes in various mouse models.

A well known joke in the diabetes community: the soonest way to find a cure for diabetes is to figure out how to turn humans into mice.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#36

Post by vikramkr »

jf- wrote: post #34
vikramkr wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a liver cell in the pancreas, it's already ignoring normal cellular signalling. And in terms of replicating, these are derived from stem cells. Cancer is partly defined by cells becoming more stem-cell like and being able to replciate, so by definition they've already been turned into a state where they're predisposed to be cancerous (or basically are cancers by definition), and the coaxed to become a pancrea…

> And in terms of replicating, these are derived from stem cells. All of everyone’s cells are derived from stem cells. The issue is still how prone to uncontrolled proliferation they are, not so much having a population of a particular cell type in the wrong place.

I was being less technical with my terminology for a layperson audience - but to clarify - these are derived from induced stem cells, which are cells engineered to go back into a stem type state, which means they're basically induced to be cancers. These are not zygotes from germline fells formed in the niche where they are supported to differentiate correctly etc. IPSCs are not embryonic stem cells, and even ESC derived stem cell lines have been growing so long in culture that they do not behave like germline cells. And even then, the method of differentiation and control is not what happens in normal development, we're sending them different pathways. Turning somatic cells into stem cells is fundamentally giving them the ability to proliferate, and their failure to differentiate into the cells we want shows a failure to control them. Like I said, this is a known problem and one with significant investment behind it as people are finding better and better ways to isolate artificial pancreases to prevent the (currently) inevitable carcinogenesis of these ipsc derived cells

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#37

Post by guywhocodes »

lolc wrote: post #28
Kwastie wrote: post #2

Am I assuming correctly that this only applies for type 1 diabetes? With type 2 diabetes the body is in general less sensitive to insulin, more insulin producing cells won't fix the underlying insensitivity issue, right?

There is already a therapy that transfers beta cells from healthy people to T1 patients. The trouble is that the patients have to take immunosuppressants ever after to prevent the immune system from killing the cells off again. And I don't think that cells grown from stem cells would fare better, because it was the patients immune system that killed the beta cells in the first place. Your typical T1 will prefer insul…

> Your typical T1 will prefer insulin therapy over immunosuppressants.

Me and me father both have T1 and he has received transportation of beta cells. Only because he was already on immune suppressants. I'll take insulin every day for the rest of my life happily if I never end up with his general health issues.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#38

Post by rland »

lolc wrote: post #28
Kwastie wrote: post #2

Am I assuming correctly that this only applies for type 1 diabetes? With type 2 diabetes the body is in general less sensitive to insulin, more insulin producing cells won't fix the underlying insensitivity issue, right?

There is already a therapy that transfers beta cells from healthy people to T1 patients. The trouble is that the patients have to take immunosuppressants ever after to prevent the immune system from killing the cells off again. And I don't think that cells grown from stem cells would fare better, because it was the patients immune system that killed the beta cells in the first place. Your typical T1 will prefer insul…

It takes time (several months) for islet cells to get destroyed by the body. That's the origin of the "Honeymoon phase" experienced by some t1ds after diagnosis. So successful islet cell transplants last for a few months; at the beginning, the patient is nearly cured, and then their islet cells are slowly destroyed by the body. So the appeal of stem cell treatment is that you get a single booster of islet cells every couple months. No nasty immunosuppressants required, because the body doesn't reject stem cells crafted from its own cloth.

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#39

Post by friendlybus »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #32
flexblue wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of T2 diabetes, white rice is a high GI food. Brown rice, legumes and grains contain plant toxins and antinutrients which are poorly researched, but at least anecdotally can cause all kinds of issues especially in sensitive people. Also, in the west, a lot of the culture of preparing these foods (such as fermenting or vigorous soaking) is bypassed. > Bean consumption is typically a good predictor for s…

Rice may be relatively high GI but it and similar foods do not usually give you type 2 diabetes. Junk food does. Rice is far cheaper than that. I don’t really think you can make the case that T2 diabetes is a poor man’s sickness.

White rice is linked with 10% increased chance of t2 with each serving per day(1).

I don't know if poor Americans are doomed to diabetes, but it is certainly orders of magnitude easier for the poor to eat poorly compared to the rich. Boosting morale in the poor is difficult without cheap fatty/sweet food and drugs, other poor people have nearly nothing else to get by excessive stressors except exercise. Running a perfectly clean life is admirable and very difficult with limited resources, social standing and spare time.

(1)https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/20120315/white-rice-link...

Re: Diabetes in mice cured rapidly using human stem cell strategy

#40

Post by TylerE »

lolc wrote: post #26

> A common problem when you’re trying to transform a human stem cell into an insulin-producing beta cell — or a neuron or a heart cell —is that you also produce other cells that you don’t want In my world this is called cancer. So yeah interesting how they're actually able to tell cells how to grow. But you don't want liver cells mixed into your pancreas, do you? > But if a quarter of the cells you make are actually…

No, that's just mutation, or something.

It isn't cancer unless it continuously reproduces.

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