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Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#131

Post by tim333 »

newsbinator wrote: post #13

I can't seem to find information on whether Chloroquine would be taken prophylactically to be effective, or only after diagnosis and symptoms appear.

Probably works as a prophylactic. Unproven. I'm actually taking it at the malarial prophylactic dose (500mg/wk).

There is some info here from a doctor https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/fbfj0r/covid19_pr...

There is some evidence that hydroxychloroquine may be better as a prophylactic. Here's medcram talking about it from in vitro results https://youtu.be/vE4_LsftNKM?t=192

Re real patients I thought this interesting on lupus patients using hydroxychloroquine at a hospital in Wuhan:

>In the early stage of the study group, through the clinical analysis of 178 patients with new coronavirus received by the hospital from December 2019, it was found that none of them was systemic lupus erythematosus. After that, in the consultation of 80 patients with systemic lupus erythematosus treated by dermatology department of the hospital, it was found that they were not infected with new coronavirus pneumonia. https://www.jqknews.com/news/388543-The_novel_coronavirus_pn...

Which suggests it may work in real life. Lupus patient get a pretty high dose but looking at the in vitro stuff it looks like a low dose say 400mg/wk might work.

There may be a possibility here to save millions of lives - if this does go full pandemic with 60% global infection, taking say weekly hydroxychloroquine might reduce the effects to something mild flu rather than ICU death. It seems to me enough upside to make it worth doing a serious research effort which I don't think is being done.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#132

Post by tim333 »

true_religion wrote: post #55
saagarjha wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if the drug causes humans to die two weeks after taking it?

Chloroquine is available without prescription in many West African counties, and is used liberally anytime a child has a fever. At this point, I would label it as dangerous as aspirin.

It's worse than aspirin.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#133

Post by rscho »

tim333 wrote: post #128
rscho wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of course, you provide evidence of a causal link to quinine derivatives. This is ridiculous. If you really knew the scientific state of clinical research, you would be far more skeptical.

That sort of data while it doesn't prove hydroxychloroquine did it, it does give some hope. If it was the other way that they - that they'd treated everyone with that and had a bad death rate then that would pretty much prove it didn't work. Another interesting bit of data along those lines is the Chinese added chloroquine to their their treatment guidelines on feb 19th and their death rate dropped about 3 or 4x shor…

I'm all for it if it works. But the diversity of practices and opinions among specialists shows that any current advice is just that: expert opinion. Here, we're doing kaletra. 100 kms from here, they're doing hydroxychloroquine.I understand the desperation, but I don't think it's for healthy citizens to pile up egoistically on ressources that might be more useful elsewhere.

From experience, expert opinion situations are not too encouraging. But let's hope we're lucky this time.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be off intubating highly contagious cases without appropriate protection equipment if you're looking for me in the coming days. Personally, I'm hoping that the disease preferentially targets politicians and health ministers #-(

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#134

Post by tim333 »

allovernow wrote: post #7

Honestly this is a perfect example of a time when laws are excessively restrictive. I should have the right to purchase this drug and use it as a last resort in the case that I or my family are infected. It's not fair to responsible people who are capable of researching safety and dosages to have to pay for the ignorance of others. Especially when this drug is OTC in most of the world. You don't need a medical degree…

Well it's hard getting the balance right but you can order it online from mexico if you want eg. https://www.medicinesmexico.com/?keywords=chloroquine

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#135

Post by tim333 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #87
internet_user wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Therapeutic index of chloroquine isn't very high, and at the doses it's recommended for corona it's rather close to lethal doses, something like within an order of magnitude. Malaria prophylaxis is dosed -once- a weeek. Half-life 60-70 hours. Covid treatment is -twice daily-.

Actually, no. The therapeutic index of chloroquine in the treatment of covid-19 is relatively high. Some people take chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine at about half the acute dosage used for covid-19 (autoimmune disorders) for literal years. Given the half life as you mentioned, once or twice a week with enough lead time would be a sufficient dosage against covid-19 too. It's just that if you want to reach the concen…

The Chinese use 1g/day for treatment. A single dose of 3g can be fatal so not a massive margin. That said they've used it on hundreds of patients without adverse effects from the drug and probably a lot of lives saved from its effects on the virus.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#136

Post by tim333 »

lultimouomo wrote: post #19
allovernow wrote: post #7

Honestly this is a perfect example of a time when laws are excessively restrictive. I should have the right to purchase this drug and use it as a last resort in the case that I or my family are infected. It's not fair to responsible people who are capable of researching safety and dosages to have to pay for the ignorance of others. Especially when this drug is OTC in most of the world. You don't need a medical degree…

I'm reasonably sure having hospitals run out of it because it was hoarded by preppers is not a desirable outcome.

It's easy to make in vast quantities though.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#137

Post by Khelavaster »

shoyer wrote: post #5

For a slightly more balanced perspective, try this paper: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422... : Highlights from that paper (all of which look quite reasonable to me, as a non-expert): • In vitro data suggest that chloroquine inhibits SARS Cov-2 replication. • In past research, chloroquine has shown in vitro activity against many different viruses, but no benefit in animal models. • Chloroq…

This paper's completely misleading. Coronavirus also has shown benefit in animal models -- for example, "Antiviral Activity of Chloroquine against Human Coronavirus OC43 Infection in Newborn Mice"

"Survival rates declined in a dose-dependent manner, with 88% survival when treated with 5 mg/kg chloroquine and 13% survival when treated with 1 mg/kg chloroquine. Our results show that chloroquine can be highly effective against HCoV-OC43 infection in newborn mice and may be considered as a future drug against HCoVs."

https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#139

Post by roenxi »

ethbro wrote: post #124
roenxi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a shortage either way; there hasn't been a change in the amount of the drug or the number of people who want it in either scenario. If anything, the price going up will increase production and the shortage will lessen as fast as the logistics chain can manage. Basically instead of people choosing where it goes a government agency/hospital system chooses where it goes. After the CDC testing debacle, hopefully…

You're ignoring the concept of wasted resources. If I buy a test kit, mask, antiviral cocktail, ICU bed for myself, despite being unlikely to need it, and there's a shortage of these resources, I've lessened the sum effectiveness and response. Personally? I assume the average person is an idiot, where nuanced topics that elicit emotional responses are concerned. I'd choose experts doing their best to allocate effecti…

But if the experts are imperfect and people are banned from helping themselves then there really is a problem.

I find it darkly ironic that in the US their centralised control of the medical system has royally screwed up the ability of people to access test kits and that is likely to become a rallying point for people who want more centralised control of the medical system.

If you do buy those things then you can share them with your neighbors. Someone is bound to want that stuff - a few more community sponsored ICU beds, masks, test kits and antiviral cocktails would be just what most countries need.

Re: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treating Covid-19

#140

Post by roenxi »

lultimouomo wrote: post #114
roenxi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a shortage either way; there hasn't been a change in the amount of the drug or the number of people who want it in either scenario. If anything, the price going up will increase production and the shortage will lessen as fast as the logistics chain can manage. Basically instead of people choosing where it goes a government agency/hospital system chooses where it goes. After the CDC testing debacle, hopefully…

There will be a shortage of ICU beds too. Would you like to allocate them to the best payer as well?

It isn't so much that I think the idea is good as much as there isn't really a way of stopping it and it will get the most resources allocated to the medical sector to set up more beds.

If you are relying on the hospital's goodwill and I'm willing to throw down $100k in bribes; I suspect I will mysteriously get myself an ICU bed. It would be better if that money went to the hospital where they can buy more beds than to corrupt administrators. Much like I can get toilet paper if I'm willing to pay $200 a roll; and it would be better if that was going to the manufacturer rather than drug dealers as is currently the case in Australia.

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