so she is ordered released but still has to pay $256K in fines. i was so hoping that those fines would be waved.
Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
301–310 of 362 posts
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
So do it again. Honestly though, I think the impeachment just pointed out the Ukraine stuff about as much as it pointed out Trump's phone call shenanigans, it wasn't good for them politically to keep at it, his approval rating was going up and he was raising tons of money during it. It was backfiring politically for them, the majority of the public wasn't interested (especially after the Russia thing coming up empty,…
The Ukraine "stuff" was a conspiracy theory. The Russian "thing" was an actual collaboration between our enemies and our presidents flunkys that nobody seriously denied happened.
"nobody seriously denied happened"
Nobody seriously found any evidence of collaboration between Trump and his "flunkys". That's the result of the Mueller Report.
Meanwhile... it's public knowledge that Democrats and the DNC paid foreigners for information from a discredited source to get an unproven Dossier to affect an American Election.
They are both conspiracy theories spread by the side that has proven evidence of worse crimes (IE: Email Servers, Joe's quid quo pro, children of elected officials getting kick backs from Burisma, etc)
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#303Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think they also rightly recognize that Congress exercising its extremely rarely used right to use force could be the first step into either civil conflict (escalating to war) between the Executive branch and Congress or the further neutralizing of congress leading to one-man-rule of President as Emperor. There are many who hear me talk about such things and think I'm absolutely crazy, but I think people have such f…
You see how far to the right the pendulum have gone in the public discourse, when somebody like Sanders is a "near communist" or even "revolutionary".
The pendulum has never been as far left as Bernie talks in this country.
And as for near communist, am example among many:
>Sanders has recalled feeling “very excited” by Castro’s 1959 revolution, which played out during his teens. “It just seemed right and appropriate that poor people were rising up against rather ugly rich people,” he said in 1986.
He has a history of visiting and praising USSR and satellites with little open criticism of their atrocities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/in-cold-war-travels-...
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
You see how far to the right the pendulum have gone in the public discourse, when somebody like Sanders is a "near communist" or even "revolutionary".
The pendulum has never been as far left as Bernie talks in this country. And as for near communist, am example among many: >Sanders has recalled feeling “very excited” by Castro’s 1959 revolution, which played out during his teens. “It just seemed right and appropriate that poor people were rising up against rather ugly rich people,” he said in 1986. He has a history of visiting and praising USSR and satellites with…
Why you shouldn't excite by Castro revolution in 1959 exactly?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba:
"Batista [..] Facing certain electoral defeat, he led a military coup [..] Back in power, and receiving financial, military, and logistical support from the United States government [..] suspended the 1940 Constitution and revoked most political liberties, including the right to strike. He then aligned with the wealthiest landowners who owned the largest sugar plantations [..]"
Anyway, the discussion should be about the policies to implement. Those are hardly communist policies.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#305TLDR; the Assange grand jury was dismissed today so Manning is ordered released but she still owes the coeercive fines which amount to $256,000.
That is obscene. I can just about understand contempt of court incarceration for not testifying (though I have extreme reservations on the practice) but such punitive and life-debilitating fines strike me as purely malicious.
Everything about the legal actions surrounding Assange seems purely malicious. A number of different governments (in the US, UK and Sweden) are trying to make the point, "Don't publish our dirty secrets or else."
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#306What's the legal reasoning (if there's any) to keep her locked up and ruin her financially while not being able to swing the same punishment at all those people who refused to testify in the recent impeachment?
How are the two things related?
Both involve people refusing to testify, and why people are being treated differently is not obvious.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#307What's the legal reasoning (if there's any) to keep her locked up and ruin her financially while not being able to swing the same punishment at all those people who refused to testify in the recent impeachment?
IANAL but I believe the normal protection against self-incrimination, the 5th Amendement, was not applicable due to the plea agreement she entered and thus was held in contempt of court for remaining silent.
Since Manning had already been tried for crimes related to this investigation (and found guilty, and served time), she could not be given further jail time. And because she could not be given further jail time, the courts had decided that making her testify to the grand jury about Assange wasn’t covered by the fifth amendment right to remain silent (which really only covers compelled self incrimination).
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#308Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Ukraine stuff ?
The whole affair with Biden's son in a board position and Biden interfering in the investigation of the company according to testimony in a Ukrainian court. It's what Trump was discussing on the phone call he was impeached over. People try and call it a conspiracy now, but unless you want to say the NYT deals in conspiracies (they do actually, but in this case): https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/corrupt…
The problem wasn't about the conduct of the Biden's, it was Trump (allegedly) telling the Ukrainian President the Ukraine would only receive already allocated military aid if the Ukraine started investigating the Bidens, supposedly to get Joe Biden into at least political if not legal trouble that Trump could then capitalize on in a re-election bid. Whether or not the Biden's did anything wrong (and so far the have been cleared at least legally, tho I have to admit there is a stink of nepotism in my opinion) wasn't the issue, the problem was if Trump, the sitting president, abused the power of his office for personal gain by threatening to withhold public aid money allocated by congress.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
How are the two things related?
Both involve people refusing to testify, and why people are being treated differently is not obvious.
Chelsea Manning was not jailed or fined for refusing to testify in and of itself. I also refuse to testify, for example, but I'm pretty sure no cop will come arrest me and put me in jail and no court will fine me.
Context is a thing, and it is relevant here.