Bradley's are he/him.
Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
291–300 of 362 posts
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#292What's the legal reasoning (if there's any) to keep her locked up and ruin her financially while not being able to swing the same punishment at all those people who refused to testify in the recent impeachment?
The reasoning is that the DOJ under Barr (and the administration in general) has no interest in cooperating with Congress or fulfilling their constitutional/legal obligations. If the Congress really wants it can enforce its own subpoenas by putting anyone who refuses to testify in their own jail, without asking the DOJ for help. This is a power that hasn’t been used since 1934, and the current Congress has opted to w…
The US is an amazing place.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole affair with Biden's son in a board position and Biden interfering in the investigation of the company according to testimony in a Ukrainian court. It's what Trump was discussing on the phone call he was impeached over. People try and call it a conspiracy now, but unless you want to say the NYT deals in conspiracies (they do actually, but in this case): https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/corrupt…
Biden did not interfere with any investigation. - His son was never accused nor suspected of any crimes - The prosecutor he asked to be removed had been in his position for 18 months and had made no progress pursuing burisma nor would he like his predecessor he was in bed with monied interests in the Ukraine. He as corrupt and everyone knew it. If his son was guilty of anything beyond trading on his father's rep shak…
1) So what, America has a responsibility for interfering in the Ukrainian justice system because it is known to be corrupt? American politics is known to be quite corrupt, do foreign powers have a moral justification for interfering?
Biden being involved in moving Ukrainian prosecutors around is evidence on the face of it of corruption at the highest levels.
2)
> There is no other narrative that makes any sense whatsoever.
There is a very sensible narrative - maybe the Biden family was getting borderline-legal kickbacks. Even if not true it is fundamentally plausible. It is definitely worth asking about for people who aren't Democrat aligned.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#294Earlier quoted context omitted.
Biden did not interfere with any investigation. - His son was never accused nor suspected of any crimes - The prosecutor he asked to be removed had been in his position for 18 months and had made no progress pursuing burisma nor would he like his predecessor he was in bed with monied interests in the Ukraine. He as corrupt and everyone knew it. If his son was guilty of anything beyond trading on his father's rep shak…
1) So what, America has a responsibility for interfering in the Ukrainian justice system because it is known to be corrupt? American politics is known to be quite corrupt, do foreign powers have a moral justification for interfering? Biden being involved in moving Ukrainian prosecutors around is evidence on the face of it of corruption at the highest levels. 2) > There is no other narrative that makes any sense whats…
There was a broad multinational support for removing the corrupt prosecutor and no reason not to.
There exists no evidence of any kick backs nor any reason to suppose that burisma gained anything other than hunter Bidens services for their money despite this already being investigated and America having the most formidable intelligence service on earth. It was asked and answered. You are holding on to a conspiracy theory.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
1) So what, America has a responsibility for interfering in the Ukrainian justice system because it is known to be corrupt? American politics is known to be quite corrupt, do foreign powers have a moral justification for interfering? Biden being involved in moving Ukrainian prosecutors around is evidence on the face of it of corruption at the highest levels. 2) > There is no other narrative that makes any sense whats…
There was a broad multinational support for removing the corrupt prosecutor and no reason not to. There exists no evidence of any kick backs nor any reason to suppose that burisma gained anything other than hunter Bidens services for their money despite this already being investigated and America having the most formidable intelligence service on earth. It was asked and answered. You are holding on to a conspiracy th…
> There was a broad multinational support for removing the corrupt prosecutor and no reason not to.
So if there is broad multinational agreement that a US judge is bad can China have him/her removed? That isn't how this stuff is meant to work.
> There exists no evidence of any kick backs nor any reason to suppose that burisma gained anything other than hunter Bidens services ...
You've just listed evidence and said you want to ignore it. That isn't a strong argument.
> ... despite this already being investigated and America having the most formidable intelligence service on earth.
And that is evidence that there was a reasonable alternative narrative of why there might be a problem.
And as almost an aside, maybe the circumstances should be investigated again when Biden isn't the nominal 2nd in the chain of command controlling the intelligence services? When he is being accused of essentially corruption? The situation seems a bit problematic.
You can disagree, but to pretend that there is no reasonable alternative where Biden is doing things that suggest corruption is an impressive work of mental gymnastics. If you are saying there already was an investigation then there is clearly enough here to justify an investigation, because someone justified it.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
It hasn't been just two men. Damn near half the politically interested country do not care what Trump does. "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," It's the party, it's the newly installed judges, it's his famil…
Unless you are about to accuse Trump of shooting someone on Fifth Avenue it isn't really that worrying. The man has been known to say things that he doesn't actually believe. > Trump won't topple the Republic. He will test every weakness of it ... Impeachment is pretty literally testing a weakness of the Republic, you know. There are lots of tests of the Republic; they happen regularly. America has passed an ungodly…
I think trying to bribe the president of Ukraine with aid money for political favors is the presidential equivalent and indeed it seems so far that party loyalty has indeed done the deed.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
It hasn't been just two men. Damn near half the politically interested country do not care what Trump does. "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," It's the party, it's the newly installed judges, it's his famil…
Unless you are about to accuse Trump of shooting someone on Fifth Avenue it isn't really that worrying. The man has been known to say things that he doesn't actually believe. > Trump won't topple the Republic. He will test every weakness of it ... Impeachment is pretty literally testing a weakness of the Republic, you know. There are lots of tests of the Republic; they happen regularly. America has passed an ungodly…
Similar things have been said in the Weimar republic in the 20s about German democracy. Then things went south incredibly quickly.
The tests, checks and balances a democracy throws at its opponents are only as powerful as the will of the public to defend it.
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but the primary reason you would support Manning is because you believe the government is in the wrong and that the $256k is considered coercive because the government is using it to pressure her into doing something that isn't in her best interest in regards to a fair trial. So the goal would be to pay lawyer fees to fight the $256k of fees.
> doing something that isn't in her best interest in regards to a fair trial You're aware she's been granted immunity, right?
No she hasn't. That is, she was not made immune to incarceration and confiscation of money - which is what the federal state did to her. She was only immune from prosecution about what she says in her testimony. However... she had already been prosecuted for her actions and did a lot of jail time.
Plus, you don't rat people out because you've been granted personal "immunity".
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reasoning is that the DOJ under Barr (and the administration in general) has no interest in cooperating with Congress or fulfilling their constitutional/legal obligations. If the Congress really wants it can enforce its own subpoenas by putting anyone who refuses to testify in their own jail, without asking the DOJ for help. This is a power that hasn’t been used since 1934, and the current Congress has opted to w…
I think they also rightly recognize that Congress exercising its extremely rarely used right to use force could be the first step into either civil conflict (escalating to war) between the Executive branch and Congress or the further neutralizing of congress leading to one-man-rule of President as Emperor. There are many who hear me talk about such things and think I'm absolutely crazy, but I think people have such f…
You see how far to the right the pendulum have gone in the public discourse, when somebody like Sanders is a "near communist" or even "revolutionary".
Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
The whole affair with Biden's son in a board position and Biden interfering in the investigation of the company according to testimony in a Ukrainian court. It's what Trump was discussing on the phone call he was impeached over. People try and call it a conspiracy now, but unless you want to say the NYT deals in conspiracies (they do actually, but in this case): https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/corrupt…
Biden did not interfere with any investigation. - His son was never accused nor suspected of any crimes - The prosecutor he asked to be removed had been in his position for 18 months and had made no progress pursuing burisma nor would he like his predecessor he was in bed with monied interests in the Ukraine. He as corrupt and everyone knew it. If his son was guilty of anything beyond trading on his father's rep shak…
The question was “what was the Ukraine stuff.” Whether “the Ukraine stuff” was proof of wrongdoing, I think the post you responded to did a good job of summarizing it.