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Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

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Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#281
post #120

What's the legal reasoning (if there's any) to keep her locked up and ruin her financially while not being able to swing the same punishment at all those people who refused to testify in the recent impeachment?

IANAL but I believe the normal protection against self-incrimination, the 5th Amendement, was not applicable due to the plea agreement she entered and thus was held in contempt of court for remaining silent.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning is that the DOJ under Barr (and the administration in general) has no interest in cooperating with Congress or fulfilling their constitutional/legal obligations. If the Congress really wants it can enforce its own subpoenas by putting anyone who refuses to testify in their own jail, without asking the DOJ for help. This is a power that hasn’t been used since 1934, and the current Congress has opted to w…

I think they also rightly recognize that Congress exercising its extremely rarely used right to use force could be the first step into either civil conflict (escalating to war) between the Executive branch and Congress or the further neutralizing of congress leading to one-man-rule of President as Emperor. There are many who hear me talk about such things and think I'm absolutely crazy, but I think people have such f…

A two man conspiracy is probably not going to topple America. The White House doesn't even have a bad relationship with Congress at the moment; Trump and the Senate are getting along like a house on fire.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#283
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With a law degree going to cost you near on $150,000 in student debt, you start to think of limited options and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage has many forms.

Depends entirely on where you go. Your $150,000 figure will get you a law degree from an elite top 20 law school, which will earn you a starting median income as a lawyer of $175,000+ in the private sector. The median lawyer in the US will earn $4 or $5 million over their law career, at a present $120,000 per year. The median lawyer from an elite school will earn more than twice that over a career. $150,000 is a reas…

Plenty of lower income lawyers out there, but yeah. Like anything, the best candidates get the best jobs. You’re not going to a top firm if you graduate at the bottom of your class and went to an average school, unless you have some other magical quality or connection.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#284
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congress already had the judicial branch confirm they have the power to hold people in contempt, but they didn't use that power in this case. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurney_v._MacCracken

So do it again. Honestly though, I think the impeachment just pointed out the Ukraine stuff about as much as it pointed out Trump's phone call shenanigans, it wasn't good for them politically to keep at it, his approval rating was going up and he was raising tons of money during it. It was backfiring politically for them, the majority of the public wasn't interested (especially after the Russia thing coming up empty,…

The Ukraine "stuff" was a conspiracy theory. The Russian "thing" was an actual collaboration between our enemies and our presidents flunkys that nobody seriously denied happened.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasoning is that the DOJ under Barr (and the administration in general) has no interest in cooperating with Congress or fulfilling their constitutional/legal obligations. If the Congress really wants it can enforce its own subpoenas by putting anyone who refuses to testify in their own jail, without asking the DOJ for help. This is a power that hasn’t been used since 1934, and the current Congress has opted to w…

I think they also rightly recognize that Congress exercising its extremely rarely used right to use force could be the first step into either civil conflict (escalating to war) between the Executive branch and Congress or the further neutralizing of congress leading to one-man-rule of President as Emperor. There are many who hear me talk about such things and think I'm absolutely crazy, but I think people have such f…

>don't represent the interests, philosophies, or desires of a large majority of America

'n capital/power.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#286
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they also rightly recognize that Congress exercising its extremely rarely used right to use force could be the first step into either civil conflict (escalating to war) between the Executive branch and Congress or the further neutralizing of congress leading to one-man-rule of President as Emperor. There are many who hear me talk about such things and think I'm absolutely crazy, but I think people have such f…

A two man conspiracy is probably not going to topple America. The White House doesn't even have a bad relationship with Congress at the moment; Trump and the Senate are getting along like a house on fire.

It hasn't been just two men. Damn near half the politically interested country do not care what Trump does.

"You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible,"

It's the party, it's the newly installed judges, it's his family and associates.

Trump won't topple the Republic. He will test every weakness of it and teach future iterations how to do it better. He is teaching adversaries how to manipulate and control this country better.

Rome didn't fall in a day. Neither the republic nor the empire.

The two men are figureheads for a whole system, some known, some not, which is dealing a serious blow to the institutions of the republic; damage that won't just be undone by a "good" election.

We need to elect a president that actively wants to limit the power of the presidency (not of the government, of the office and branch) and a Congress which is more interested in the individual representitives and their views than the parties. We have to have a voting republic that values these things instead of the mixture of team sport and religious crusade which American politics has become.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#287
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ukraine stuff ?

The whole affair with Biden's son in a board position and Biden interfering in the investigation of the company according to testimony in a Ukrainian court. It's what Trump was discussing on the phone call he was impeached over. People try and call it a conspiracy now, but unless you want to say the NYT deals in conspiracies (they do actually, but in this case): https://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/corrupt…

Biden did not interfere with any investigation.

- His son was never accused nor suspected of any crimes

- The prosecutor he asked to be removed had been in his position for 18 months and had made no progress pursuing burisma nor would he like his predecessor he was in bed with monied interests in the Ukraine. He as corrupt and everyone knew it.

If his son was guilty of anything beyond trading on his father's rep shaking up the status qou would be to his sons disadvantage.

- The president asked for a public announcement of an investigation on TV purely and only to solicit help to smear a political rival. There is no other narrative that makes any sense whatsoever.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#288
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A two man conspiracy is probably not going to topple America. The White House doesn't even have a bad relationship with Congress at the moment; Trump and the Senate are getting along like a house on fire.

It hasn't been just two men. Damn near half the politically interested country do not care what Trump does. "You know what else they say about my people? The polls, they say I have the most loyal people. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose any voters, okay? It’s like incredible," It's the party, it's the newly installed judges, it's his famil…

Unless you are about to accuse Trump of shooting someone on Fifth Avenue it isn't really that worrying. The man has been known to say things that he doesn't actually believe.

> Trump won't topple the Republic. He will test every weakness of it ...

Impeachment is pretty literally testing a weakness of the Republic, you know. There are lots of tests of the Republic; they happen regularly. America has passed an ungodly number of tests.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#289
post #272

Did they just charge her a quarter of a million dollars for refusing to speak. What a crock of thuggy shit justice department.

Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments, and in particular not name-calling fulmination, to Hacker News. We're trying for something different than that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html The fines against Manning have been commented on repeatedly and extensively in this very thread. The only thing your comment adds is rage, which we have already have a surplus of, even if it's all j…

Flamewars are fun, you're not. Humans are fundamentally emotional beings.

Re: Chelsea Manning ordered to be released [pdf]

#290
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly the previous comment was conflating things that happened in the past with what's happening how. I was sometimes disappointed with the reality of the Obama presidency, like may others. But this comment is just ridiculous. From the policies, to the personal conduct, to their respect or lack thereof for the rule of law, the two administrations and the actions of the two in and out of office are wildly differen…

The fact remains that millions of people are screaming holy hell about things "Trump does" that they were silent about 4 years ago when Obama did them.

Yet millions of people love what Trump does. And the celebrities that pledged to leave USA if he got elected somehow didn't follow on their promises. The real problem is that the country is polarized now, and neither side will accept the result of election - any result. And who is responsible for this polarization? Democrats and their affiliated media are. They are the ones who couldn't respect Trump's presidency and preferred to destroy the social fabric to get the power back.
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