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Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

bbc.com

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Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#581

Post by esarbe »

tonfa wrote: post #109
tiborsaas wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ripple effect is already in place. Flybe airline just defaulted, I've read a post on Linkedin that a small catering firm is suffering in Hungary due to cancelled events and other companies in the food chain will probably suffer a lot more especially if they operate with a razor thin margin. After the human factor, the virus will hit the economy hard. It's probably only a matter of time till it triggers a serious…

Since beginning of March, Switzerland has 2.5k workers on part-time unemployment (a setup to use reduced working time instead of layoffs).

What is that about? Half of the Swiss work force?

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#582

Post by exolymph »

cm2187 wrote: post #552
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

I am struggling to reconcile this story with the numbers of deaths so far vs the number of deaths in any given year. A french infectious disease specialist mentioned that 2017 had been a bad year for infectious respiratory diseases in France, with over 60,000 additional deaths in winter, to the point that it affected life expectancy tables [1]. I don’t remember any mention of hospitals being overwhelmed and doing war…

Flu season is accounted for in normal hospital beds and other capacity planning. A sudden huge surge in need for ICU care is not accounted for.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#583

Post by Scarblac »

hef19898 wrote: post #554
shalmanese wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the US though, you have other countries in Europe handling this abysmally like The Netherlands. Indonesia is still in the "pray to make it go away" stage despite multiple cases in Singapore being traced back to Indonesian travel (including one rich Indonesian who couldn't find anyone to treat them in Indonesia so deliberately flew to Singapore on a private plane to get healthcare).

Going with the abysmal handing theory. What concrete steps should, in your regard, be taken to contain the virus from spreading? How would these steps contribute to contain the virus and how would the be implemented without causing disproportional damage elsewhere? Just saying the situation is handled badly is easy. Just like being a better football coach after a big game. There is a german saying that everytime the…

Quarantine a whole neighbourhood when a case is found, keep it locked down until everyone has tested negative for two weeks.

Drive-through testing where everybody with any symptoms can get themselves tested.

A good public education campaign with calm TV documentaries that show the facts of what was going on in Wuhan and is now going on in Italy, and explains why these actions need to be taken.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#584

Post by inciampati »

muyuan wrote: post #296
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

I am a Chinese living in Bay Area. What's described by the Italian doctor was exactly like the situation in Wuhan right after the lockdown for the first 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately, I think it will hit Italy harder this time, China locked down Wuhan but every other provinces send in supplies and doctors to help, just building new hospitals is not enough, and I don't see France/Germany doing the same to Italy. The US res…

Italy is following China's lead. It has been harder to change social behavior here. But it will change due to the severity of the situation. The lag in response will definitely make things more severe. But the climate may help, assuming warmer temperatures reduce transmission.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#585

Post by dzdt »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #274
jpxw wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can they be believed?

The CCP claims new cases are almost eliminated outside of Wuhan city limits; that'd be a hard thing to fake if it were really churning along at peak strength.

Yes, I think the CCP could only stretch the truth by about one order of magnitude without the lie being obvious. Has China reported accurately every prison outbreak? Probably not. Is COVID-19 spreading widely in China now? No.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#586

Post by gioele »

cm2187 wrote: post #552
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

I am struggling to reconcile this story with the numbers of deaths so far vs the number of deaths in any given year. A french infectious disease specialist mentioned that 2017 had been a bad year for infectious respiratory diseases in France, with over 60,000 additional deaths in winter, to the point that it affected life expectancy tables [1]. I don’t remember any mention of hospitals being overwhelmed and doing war…

> It is possible than one hospital may be overwhelmed, but surely it cannot be representative of hospitals across Italy or even a region.

Sadly, it is representative of hospitals across all northern Italy: https://www.ilpost.it/2020/03/08/pesenti-emergenza-ospedali-... https://www.ilpost.it/2020/03/09/coronavirus-terapia-intensi... ("Affollamento e scelte difficili")

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#587

Post by meijer »

adrianN wrote: post #470
rlt wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I don't believe the following (Hanlon's razor, etc), but it would make a good dystopian/thriller: As some point one might consider if governments see COVID-19 as an opportunity to "cull the herd". Japan and Italy have the two largest aging populations of any countries. The US has a large number of citizens with COVID-19 comorbidities. I'm not sure if the long term savings on entitlements and health care…

Pretty much by definition in countries with large populations of old people, the current governments largely rely on the vote of those old people to stay in power. This makes the cull-the-herd theory rather unlikely in my opinion. I think simple incompetence is a sufficient explanation.

Also, many of the politician are old themselves. Being in public all the same, the are really vulnerable.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#588

Post by hef19898 »

Scarblac wrote: post #583
hef19898 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going with the abysmal handing theory. What concrete steps should, in your regard, be taken to contain the virus from spreading? How would these steps contribute to contain the virus and how would the be implemented without causing disproportional damage elsewhere? Just saying the situation is handled badly is easy. Just like being a better football coach after a big game. There is a german saying that everytime the…

Quarantine a whole neighbourhood when a case is found, keep it locked down until everyone has tested negative for two weeks. Drive-through testing where everybody with any symptoms can get themselves tested. A good public education campaign with calm TV documentaries that show the facts of what was going on in Wuhan and is now going on in Italy, and explains why these actions need to be taken.

So basically a measured, fact based response to it. Sounds good if you ask me! Especially the education campaign is thoroughly missed at the moment.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#589

Post by hurrdurr2 »

newtoday wrote: post #440
hurrdurr2 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of our older neighbors are inviting everyone on the nextdoor app to go to their house for movie night to prove that this is just a flu. The entire thread is people making fun of covid19 and how they are angry their retirement accounts are getting hit. I wish I was making this up.

Geez, what part of the country if you don't mind me asking? Arrogance, ignorance, and disinformation is literally going to kill us. Thanks for sharing that.

Bay Area, CA

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#590

Post by codeulike »

irq11 wrote: post #394
sciinfo wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most severe cases require trained medical staff. Since ~20% of infections requires hospitalization, no healthcare system is prepared for an exponential rise in SARS-CoV-2 infections. Most fatalities are from pneumonia. Lots of details are available all over. You may want to read up.

The numbers out of Korea are nowhere near 20%. About 0.9% of cases are considered severe, according to the most recent statements from the KCDC: https://m.yna.co.kr/view/AKR20200307046000017?fbclid=IwAR0tl... Someone is exaggerating, or something is fundamentally inadequate about the Italian response.

SK have tested 5 times more people than anywhere else so are picking up more mild cases that other countries are not detecting. So I'm hoping the SK numbers are closer to 'real'
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