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Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

bbc.com

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Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#311

Post by sciinfo »

datashow wrote: post #297
esistgut wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please note that Lombardy has a very very good health service. The OECD put a score on this [1]: 9.9/10. This is in the top 5% across all regions. Other european regions seem to have lower average scores and their governments are not taking serious actions. [2] How the US is reacting from my perspective (italian confined near Rome) seems borderline madness. Something about this situation confuses me a lot. [1] https:…

Actually this event may also become a test of the validity of those measures / indicators. One may argue those measures / indicators are not setup for this purpose.

No healthcare treatment in real life can be sufficient for an exponential growth of severe cases that require skilled staff and specialized equipment.

Health service ranking focuses on treatment I suppose. We need a different ranking for epidemic prevention and control.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#312

Post by kaiabwpdjqn »

moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

What do the healthcare workers actually do while caring for these people? Is this something that actually requires significant medical knowledge?

What does arrest mean? Is that cardiac arrest? Is that how people are dying? If they’re dying and people aren’t attending, should they even be there at all?

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#313

Post by lqs469 »

paganel wrote: post #21

Unreal, a month ago (February 7th) I was posting this news story [1] related to the city of Shenzen which was about to be put into some form of lockdown, it only received one upvote. A month from that event and we have an entire European country (a G7 member to add) under lockdown. I guess the normalcy bias [2] was too strong for too many people until reality hit us hard in the face. [1] https://www.epochtimes.com/gb…

This is not surprising, even very common. The media can easily guide the direction of public opinion. After all, there are not many people who think independently (Fortunately, most of the people on the HN were able to make their own judgments). Look at these two tweets from NYT, just separated by 20 minutes:

[1] https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1236484352965521408

[2] https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1236479276586807296

I mean the events happened are similar, but the point of reporting is totally different.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#314

Post by throwaway5752 »

usrusr wrote: post #249
Nursie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the UK have already been panic buying, mostly pasta and toilet roll AFAICT

The toilet roll thing seems to be everywhere (Germany is full of "why toilet paper!" outrage as well), but do people really panic buy so much? Toilet paper is an item you buy once every few weeks or months, depending on household size, it's very high volume per unit of money so shops stock just enough to satisfy an even random distribution of individual buying times. Now if all of a sudden, triggered by news, a consi…

It seems irrational, but it allows people to feel like they are doing something in the face of a threat that they cannot control.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#315

Post by mantap »

esistgut wrote: post #281
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

Please note that Lombardy has a very very good health service. The OECD put a score on this [1]: 9.9/10. This is in the top 5% across all regions. Other european regions seem to have lower average scores and their governments are not taking serious actions. [2] How the US is reacting from my perspective (italian confined near Rome) seems borderline madness. Something about this situation confuses me a lot. [1] https:…

Politicians have no understanding of exponential growth. They look at low numbers and think "we have a lot of time" then are surprised later when they in fact don't.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#316

Post by jashkenas »

The Italian Department of Civil Protection is now publishing detailed confirmed case statistics on GitHub. I just finished throwing together a little animated map of of how it's been spreading across provinces:

https://observablehq.com/@jashkenas/italy-coronavirus-daily-...

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#317

Post by danans »

bArray wrote: post #228
Nursie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in the UK have already been panic buying, mostly pasta and toilet roll AFAICT

> mostly pasta Sensible choice all things considered. I think instant noodles are also a pretty good bet, I personally make a noodle soup with vegetables to bring up the nutrition a bit. I would also add frozen vegetables to the list as it keeps for ages and balances out most meals, whilst still being quite good for you.

While you're prepping, lentils, dal (dried split peas), and dried beans, are all very shelf stable proteins. Pair with hard skin squash and pumpkins, which also keep for a while, and of course rice. Powdered butter is a shelf stable fat, also nuts though they're more expensive.

Even if you don't use it now because food supply chains don't end up majorly affected, this kind of stuff is handy to have around in case of an a more immediate emergency.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#318

Post by Polylactic_acid »

soneil wrote: post #226
CaciaraAsAServi wrote: post #65

I was not very surprised that Italy turned out to be the (first?) major hit in Europe. Considering the strong business connections, it had to be either us or Germany. We are, as much of the world, importers from China, but many enterprises here are also, somewhat, strong exporters to China (I can see it from my dayjob as industrial automation SI), and if you factor in the small average size of Italian companies requi…

> Another interesting thing I have just noticed is that some journalists are now openly praising the Chinese handling of the crisis. I think this is a very interesting effect. China has a fantastic ability to mobilize as one when needed. The vast majority of the time, the insane amount of control this requires, is something we're simply not comfortable with giving to governments. But sometimes, just sometimes, the re…

>What makes China feel alien to us is that this is their default stance.

Isn't having a massive military Americas default stance as well?

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#319

Post by sciinfo »

kaiabwpdjqn wrote: post #312
moultano wrote: post #271

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

What do the healthcare workers actually do while caring for these people? Is this something that actually requires significant medical knowledge? What does arrest mean? Is that cardiac arrest? Is that how people are dying? If they’re dying and people aren’t attending, should they even be there at all?

Most severe cases require trained medical staff. Since ~20% of infections requires hospitalization, no healthcare system is prepared for an exponential rise in SARS-CoV-2 infections.

Most fatalities are from pneumonia. Lots of details are available all over. You may want to read up.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#320

Post by tomerico »

jashkenas wrote: post #316

The Italian Department of Civil Protection is now publishing detailed confirmed case statistics on GitHub. I just finished throwing together a little animated map of of how it's been spreading across provinces: https://observablehq.com/@jashkenas/italy-coronavirus-daily-...

Super interesting. For once it doesn’t look like a population density map.
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