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Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

bbc.com

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Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#291

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

That account has TEN tweets spanning 2013 - 2020. Then this thread. Don’t believe everything you read even if it sounds like a believable novel

[deleted]

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#292
All my medical colleagues kept saying this was bad. In the first cohorts of patients, 10-20% needed ICU level care. I have privy to the latest peer reviewed guidelines for medicine and had a double take when I read the initial complications: 19.6% Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS). ARDS has a supportive type of treatment, which means that we give you all the basics for life and hope that you pull through. It's the last resort of care. It's only ~150 people, that statistics might be off. Then the cohort study came out that was looking at 44k patients. It lined up with the first cohort so close you could consider it a rounding error.

Folks, get mentally ready to know someone that will die because of this. Luckily, almost everyone in this thread will be alive, but those that have diabetes, cancer, coronary artery disease, and the elderly are the ones who will have poor outcomes because of it.

>http://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/id/e53946e2-c6c4-41e9-9... >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32031570-clinical-characteri... >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31986264-clinical-features-o... >https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32007143-epidemiological-and...

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#293
post #15
post #2

For anybody living in quarantined areas of Italy. How much has your daily life been affected?

I have been reviewing the situation with a colleague of mine, and we have now realized that the new measures are not enough. It makes no sense to allow burger king or any bar to stay open util 6 p.m. And it makes no sense to allow to go to work for any undeferrable (or also deferrable) reason. The only effective measure seems logically to be quarantine, and for me and my family (2+2), from tomorrow afternoon quaranti…

What does this quarantine mean for you? Are you not leaving the house/flat at all?

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#294
post #24
post #9

Italy is a country of 60M+ people and the 8th largest economy in the world, with a very high national debt and that significantly relies on tourism for its economy. Above and beyond the Coronavirus, this can terribly affect the long-term solvency of the country.

I hope (and suspect) that the ECB (and Europe as a whole) will financially stand behind Italy, no questions asked (I'm a fellow European).

Allow me to doubt this until I see it become reality. The European government has been less than helpful to Italy throughout its history.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#295

I was not very surprised that Italy turned out to be the (first?) major hit in Europe. Considering the strong business connections, it had to be either us or Germany. We are, as much of the world, importers from China, but many enterprises here are also, somewhat, strong exporters to China (I can see it from my dayjob as industrial automation SI), and if you factor in the small average size of Italian companies requi…

[deleted]

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#296

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

I am a Chinese living in Bay Area. What's described by the Italian doctor was exactly like the situation in Wuhan right after the lockdown for the first 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately, I think it will hit Italy harder this time, China locked down Wuhan but every other provinces send in supplies and doctors to help, just building new hospitals is not enough, and I don't see France/Germany doing the same to Italy. The US response so far feels very much like what I saw early Jan in China, the government kept assuring the public everything is in control and risk is very low. One could argue it's either cover up or they simply didn't know, I think it's a combination of both. But I really cannot understand why US is handling it this way after seeing what happened in Wuhan and now Italy, it almost feels like Trump has some secret weapons ready to save the day. You would think that, since most of the leaders are in a high risk demographic and spend large chunk of their time shaking hands with strangers, they would be more vigilant

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#297

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

Please note that Lombardy has a very very good health service. The OECD put a score on this [1]: 9.9/10. This is in the top 5% across all regions. Other european regions seem to have lower average scores and their governments are not taking serious actions. [2] How the US is reacting from my perspective (italian confined near Rome) seems borderline madness. Something about this situation confuses me a lot. [1] https:…

Actually this event may also become a test of the validity of those measures / indicators. One may argue those measures / indicators are not setup for this purpose.

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in other countries put too much weight in what the president says, Trump or otherwise, because they don't fully understand that there is an entire system of government that can fully function with or without the president. I won't go so far as to say that the position of the president is a figurehead, but it's been more than a little advisory for several generations. I watch a lot of BBC, NHK, and DW, and see…

As if European countries worked differently...

Are there any presidential republics in Europe?

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep extrapolating that tens of millions will die, and I don't doubt that tens of millions surely would _if_ there were no lock-downs! (The subject of this article!) The whole point of locking down Wuhan/Hubei and then northern Italy and now the whole country and other places and cancelling large public gatherings and events is that local, regional, and national authorities start seeing the numbers soaring and…

There is cause for optimism in the numbers out of South Korea and China. Even assuming China has lied about their numbers (population ratios with Italy and South Korea vs China make that plainly clear, they lied to a large degree on the numbers), if China has managed to bring it under control through their extreme quarantine measures, then we can prevent it from killing tens of millions. South Korea seems to have con…

I think this is far too optimistic.

1. We don't know the actual reality of what's happening on the ground in China. Hubei and Italy have approximately the same population, yet Italy is suffering more proportionally. I think the obvious explanation is drastic underreporting of cases and fatalities in China. When all is said and done I think China probably has underreported by at least a magnitude if not double that.

2. Most Western countries won't impose the type of strategies that China undertook; they simply can't. When things get too bad to impose draconian quarantines, it'll be too late. Even Italy's efforts in quarantining the nation are not enough.

3. Most of the world doesn't have good healthcare. I'm talking about Africa, Southwest Asia, South America. There simply aren't enough ICU beds and ventilators to go around. Even in the US, I've read reports of only 100K ventilators nationwide. If the pandemic keeps growing exponentially with a doubling period of 4 days, the US alone will have 1M cases by mid-April.

4. Simple math. World population outside of China is 6.5B. If 10% are infected (very conservative imho) we're looking at 650M cases world wide. If the CFR drops to 1%, then we're in the neighborhood of 6.5m fatalities. And the survivors? Roughly 81% of those infected survive with no serious side effects. The remainder have serious health issues even after the disease runs its course. That's 117M casualties. This is world altering.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus

Re: Italy is extending its coronavirus quarantine measures to the entire country

#300
post #296

This is an account from one of the doctors in Italy. https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/123714289107769753... Read the whole thing, but this passage in particular is just chilling. "5/ Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are start…

I am a Chinese living in Bay Area. What's described by the Italian doctor was exactly like the situation in Wuhan right after the lockdown for the first 2-3 weeks. Unfortunately, I think it will hit Italy harder this time, China locked down Wuhan but every other provinces send in supplies and doctors to help, just building new hospitals is not enough, and I don't see France/Germany doing the same to Italy. The US res…

> it almost feels like Trump has some secret weapons ready to save the day. You would think that, since most of the leaders are in a high risk demographic and spend large chunk of their time shaking hands with strangers, they would be more vigilant

He's behaving entirely consistently with how he always has: deny everything, project perfection.

There's no signal here of a secret weapon, it's a complete shit show.

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