Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 338 posts

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#81

Post by anonymou2 »

rlv-dan wrote: post #75
codr7 wrote: post #66

I recently moved back to Sweden after living 4 years in Germany. I don't have any cards, and I don't carry a "smart"phone anymore; in Germany this didn't cause any trouble at all and I was far from alone. Much of the current Swedish society is currently closed to me, I know of three shops and one cafe in the (200k people) city center that accept cash. Some of it has been gradual but it changed dramatically during the…

I pay more often with cash today than some years ago, as a statement. Interestingly, if you talk about cash in Sweden the comments you will get tend to be very hostile. It's like talking about meat in a vegan community.

I pay cash too as much as I can, it freaked me out when my bank started classifying my expenses. That hostile talk you mention reminds me of when I talk about vehicular cycling, specially in northern european circles, where they are a lot into segregating cyclists. I think it is a similar paternalistic issue, hey this is good for you, resistance is futile!

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#82

Post by dgellow »

techsupporter wrote: post #24
notRobot wrote: post #2

Being able to pay through cards and phones is super convenient, but cash should never not be an option. Card companies, payment apps and banks are constantly tracking your purchases and profiling you. This data can be leaked/stolen/sold, and is always available to governments and those in/with power. Cash is (almost completely) anonymous. You should always be able to pay with cash if you want.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

> [it] opens my employees up to risk of being [...] sickened by handling dirty bills.

Is that a thing? I used cash my entire life, I never heard of anyone becoming sick because of it.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#83

Post by drfuchs »

username90 wrote: post #43
Svip wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourists, I'd imagine. I am not sure how many merchants you know in Sweden that accepts UnionPay? At least of the smaller ones. And I know most German tourists prefer cash, generally any tourist from a cash heavy society will prefer cash. Sure, their big ticket items are still going to be hotels and the like, where they will pay with a credit card, but they are not interested in coming if they can pay the small merch…

When I travel abroad I just use my mastercard, why doesn't that work for them? I don't know anyone without a mastercard or a visa.

In 2019, I was able to spend 4 days in Canada without touching a single Canadian Dollar. On the other hand, 4 days in Germany absolutely required cash at virtually every meal and other non-hotel purchase.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#84

Post by luckylion »

techsupporter wrote: post #24
notRobot wrote: post #2

Being able to pay through cards and phones is super convenient, but cash should never not be an option. Card companies, payment apps and banks are constantly tracking your purchases and profiling you. This data can be leaked/stolen/sold, and is always available to governments and those in/with power. Cash is (almost completely) anonymous. You should always be able to pay with cash if you want.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

> Why, other than your privacy?

Data security is my main issue. Companies have repeatedly shown that they cannot be trusted to keep the data safe, so your private information, credit card details etc end up leaked and sold, your identity gets stolen, you have lots of trouble (financial and legal) and the company says "oopsie, keeping you safe is our top priority. Here's a $20 voucher you can spend at any of our shops".

As soon as any credit card transaction comes with a $5000 risk in damages & penalties if you've gotten your 5-year-old-never-updated-with-a-public-IP POS system cracked, the "labor-intensiveness" of paper money vanishes in comparison.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#85

Post by lotsofpulp »

dgellow wrote: post #82
techsupporter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

> [it] opens my employees up to risk of being [...] sickened by handling dirty bills. Is that a thing? I used cash my entire life, I never heard of anyone becoming sick because of it.

Depends if you touch your face without washing your hands after touching cash.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#86

Post by INTPenis »

Not may, has caused. I've seen it myself.

On the plus side the app StreetComplete has merged in a quest that allows people to easily answer whether a business in Sweden accepts cash or not.

So hopefully that will improve the poor OSM data set and allow people to easier find cash payment places.

For the nerds out there it uses the OSM tag payment:cash=yes.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#87

Post by lotsofpulp »

onion2k wrote: post #33
techsupporter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should always be able to pay with cash if you want. Why, other than your privacy? If I own a business, why should I be barred from choosing to not accept cash? Paper money is more labor-intensive to handle and opens my employees up to risk of being robbed for that cash or sickened by handling dirty bills. As for people who may not be able to pay electronically, why can I not choose to not have them as customers…

Why, other than your privacy? Businesses that don't accept cash don't make any money when the infrastructure fails. If your revenue is dependent on your PoS device, Wi-Fi, ISP, payment provider, the payment provider's network infrastructure, banking network, and more that's a lot of risk. For most independent businesses having a working cash register and a bank account that enables cash deposits would be a better opt…

> For most independent businesses having a working cash register and a bank account that enables cash deposits would be a better option than the cost of SLAs and insurance against not being open.

Obviously not if the business is choosing to opt out of cash. I assume they are at least competent enough to know how often they have missed sales due to issues with electronic payments versus the cost of maintaining cash.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#88

Post by Sir_Substance »

tedeh wrote: post #10
reaperducer wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do poor people function in a cashless society?

A bank account is a right for every EU citizen: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-pr... Banks are not allowed to refuse account opening to any resident.

Icelandic banks make 2FA mandatory, and your only 2FA choice is phone SMS.

So now there is a ~1000kr/month fee for using the bank here, with a ~8000kr startup cost, because you need a phone and a sim card.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#89

Post by luckylion »

LatteLazy wrote: post #20
dehrmann wrote: post #17

Part of why cashless works is the same reason the Swedish welfare state generally works: a trust of government. Contrast this with Germany and its history with...lists; it's best not to have yourself be too traceable. I think the US is somewhere in-between, but at the end of the day, we'll hand over a lot for 2% cashback and avoid paying for journalism at all costs.

Of course, the German government that made lists did so without credit card records or electronic ids or anything like that...

> the German government that made lists

Governments. We didn't stop making lists after 45, in neither the FRG nor the GDR, the outcomes were just not as severe if you ended up on one of them.

Re: Swedes rebelling against a cashless society (2018)

#90

Post by brtkdotse »

Sir_Substance wrote: post #88
tedeh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bank account is a right for every EU citizen: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-pr... Banks are not allowed to refuse account opening to any resident.

Icelandic banks make 2FA mandatory, and your only 2FA choice is phone SMS. So now there is a ~1000kr/month fee for using the bank here, with a ~8000kr startup cost, because you need a phone and a sim card.

You don't have prepaid card and used phones on Iceland?
Post reply on HN