Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6 • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#361

Post by jorams » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:26 PM UTC

bluhbi wrote: post #258

maest wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> worried about 300$ per month infra costs That feels like the wrong attitude.

The salary of people working and using those 'tools' this infrastructure is higher then 300$. If your kubernetes cluster is part of your core infrastructure, then 300$ more or less should not be an issue at all (not to say that i think 300$ is nothing). That should not mean that you should waste money but often enough, if you buy cheap and your hardware breaks and your time&material costs much more then what a better…

> GCP offers 2FA, Digital Ocean does not.

Digital Ocean definitely supports 2FA[1]

[1]: https://www.digitalocean.com/docs/accounts/security/2fa/

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#362

Post by yoshiat » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

rolleiflex wrote: post #58

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

Thank you for your feedback and we understand this was a surprise to you and many.

For cluster per customer architecture, would you be able to look into https://cloud.google.com/kubernetes-engine/docs/best-practic... to see if there is anything useful? We understand changing the architecture isn't easy at all and we'd love to know how we can help.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#363

Post by praveenperera » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:28 PM UTC

atombender wrote: post #347

praveenperera wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But DigitalOcean has managed K8s now: https://www.digitalocean.com/products/kubernetes/

DigitalOcean did not have Kubernetes then. Are you suggesting we should spend 6-12 man months migrating back?

No my mistake DOKS came out late 2018.

I had been using it since May 2018 but it didn't come out of early access till December.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#364

Post by bcheung » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:29 PM UTC

pojzon wrote: post #107

tmpz22 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people drank the cloud kool-aid. The move from day one was to create provider agnostic cloud architectures and repent the use of provider-specific services. That said they do make it damn hard. Our k8s cluster is as basic as it comes, no databases, simple deployments, but we do still have a dependency on Google Cloud Loadbalancer (which we hate). If pricing goes up too much from this we'll move, but the GCL…

How about managing own k8s running on VMs / bare-metal? Pretty much anyone who works in ops longer understood from the go that its impossible to be totally provider-agnostic. K8S is just a nice api on top of provider api that still requires provider specific configuration.

I'm running my own on bare metal dedicated servers. You will need to install a few extra things (MetalLB for LoadBalancer, CertManager for SSL, an ingress controller (nginx, Ambassador, Gloo), and one of the CSI plugins for your preferred storage method). It is extra work but as a personal cluster for hobby work, I'm paying $65/mo total for the cluster. Same specs would probably be $1000/mo at a public cloud provider.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#365

Post by andybak » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:30 PM UTC

yoshiat wrote: post #362

rolleiflex wrote: post #58

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

Thank you for your feedback and we understand this was a surprise to you and many. For cluster per customer architecture, would you be able to look into https://cloud.google.com/kubernetes-engine/docs/best-practic... to see if there is anything useful? We understand changing the architecture isn't easy at all and we'd love to know how we can help.

I'm curious whether you're comfortable with this move or not. Something about your tone gives the impression you think this was a strategic error.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#366

Post by msohn » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

Try project Gardener.

It's fully open source and uses kubernetes to run kubernetes control planes and manage underlying infrastructure across many infrastructure providers.

Manage homogeneous kubernetes clusters across Azure, AWS, GCP, Alicloud, OpenStack, VMWare at scale. Kubernetes on bare metal with Packet Cloud or using open source metal-stack coming soon.

Extensible for other infrastructures, contribute support for your favorite infrastructure.

Automation of day 2 operations e.g. etcd management including automated backup/restore.

Choose kubernetes version, DNS provider, operating system, network plugins, container runtimes.

Extended cluster services like DNS management and TLS certificate services.

https://gardener.cloud/ https://github.com/gardener https://kubernetes.io/blog/2018/05/17/gardener/ https://kubernetes.io/blog/2019/12/02/gardener-project-updat... https://landscape.cncf.io/selected=gardener

https://github.com/gardener?q=extension-provider https://github.com/gardener?q=gardener-extension-os https://github.com/gardener?q=gardener-extension-networking https://github.com/metal-stack/gardener-extension-provider-m...

https://www.packet.com/developers/integrations/container-man... https://github.com/metal-stack https://knative.dev/docs/install/knative-with-gardener/

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#367

Post by fernandotakai » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

minimaxir wrote: post #40

kwils wrote: post #35

Note: Azure does not charge a master/cluster management fee (bias disclosure I work for Microsoft)

Given this news, I suspect that won't last.

yup. also, AKS does not have an SLA -- https://azure.microsoft.com/en-in/support/legal/sla/kubernet...

>As a free service, AKS does not offer a financially-backed service level agreement. We will strive to attain at least 99.5% availability for the Kubernetes API server. The availability of the agent nodes in your cluster is covered by the Virtual Machines SLA. Please see the Virtual Machines SLA for more details.

google didn't have one either, so they added it + a price for said SLA.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#368

Post by yoshiat » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

lvh wrote: post #100

xur17 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently spin up dev clusters with a single node. $73/mo is going to basically double the cost of all of these..

This highlights a sorta-weird consequence of this pricing change: suddenly pricing incentivizes you to use namespacing instead of clusters for separating environments. (As a security person: ugh.)

Yes, namespace alone isn't sufficient for isolation. Would you be able to look at our latest Multi-Tenancy best practices?

https://cloud.google.com/kubernetes-engine/docs/best-practic...

It's a living product which comes with Terraform modules. We introduced various features to enable doing Multi-Tenancy as well (and more on their way!)

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#369

Post by whatsmyusername » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:31 PM UTC

maishsk wrote: post #189

whatsmyusername wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's considerably cheaper than EKS. Looks like $75-80 a month vs I believe around $200 per EKS cluster. Everyone's having EKS cost problems while I'm just sitting over here paying nothing for ECS control planes.

I am not sure how you get to $200/month for an EKS cluster - it is $0.1/hr https://aws.amazon.com/eks/pricing/

I might be thinking of the numbers I put together for dev/stage/prod.

Turned out to be irrelevant. Following their instructions I couldn't get EC2 runtime hosts to attach after a couple hours of fucking around (which is my standard for, 'is this mature enough to use'), while with ECS I hit one button and was up an running. Wasn't a hard choice when we started dockerizing (especially since I could simplify most jobs even further having dev use Fargate, albeit at a premium).

EKS struck me as a feature parity product, not something you'd actually use.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#370

Post by geodel » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:33 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #102

sethvargo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the question. While I can't go into deep detail... as with most free things, people find a way to abuse the system. While we've invested significant effort to curtail such abuse, this is the road we've landed. To your point about running your own K8S cluster - two things: 1. That's something you have always been (and still are) entitled to do. 2. Having personally run large-scale K8S clusters, the chall…

So... You guys roll out a free service. You tell your sales people to hype it up as a benefit over other providers. You somehow don't anticipate that some users will "abuse" the free service, so you hike up rates for everyone? Sorry, I don't think you're likely to find much empathy on this one.

> You guys roll out a free service. You tell your sales people to hype it up as a benefit over other providers.

Strange argument. It is basically what whole world do. Give some free or heavily discounted product or service in hope of gaining market and later on increase price / start charging for that thing.