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Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

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Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#181

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

It's considerably cheaper than EKS. Looks like $75-80 a month vs I believe around $200 per EKS cluster. Everyone's having EKS cost problems while I'm just sitting over here paying nothing for ECS control planes.

It's the same price as EKS... https://aws.amazon.com/eks/pricing/

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seth — I appreciate you being here to take feedback, and for the clarification as well. The very surprising email I’ve received this morning is very hazy on the details, and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. The main issue is that not charging for the control plane and charging for the control plane leads to two very different Kubernetes architectures, and as per your docs, those decisions made at t…

Thank you These changes won't take effect until June - customers won't start getting billed immediately. I'm sorry that you feel trapped, that's not our intention. > You should keep existing clusters in the pricing model they’ve been built in, and apply this change for clusters created after today. This is great feedback, but clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets. I'd love to learn more about why your clus…

> clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets

Heh... how many teams actually treat their clusters like cattle, though? Every time I advocate automation around cluster management, people start complaining that "you don't have to do that anymore, we have Kubernetes!"

Some people get it, yes, but even of that group, few have the political will/strength to make sure that automation is set up on the cluster level—especially to a point where you could migrate running production workloads between clusters without a potentially large outage / maintenance window.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#183

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

The 'cluster control plane is free' selling point was basically the _only_ thing I saw from all the different groups I worked with which was in GKE's favor. Yes you can get one free cluster but anyone serious about using Kubernetes would have _at least_ two clusters (a prod and non-prod staging cluster), so unless you're a true hobbyist (and the use case for K8s in that realm is pretty slim unless it's to backstop wo…

Can you help me understand how these changes would be _more_ than EKS?

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#185
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the feedback. The management fee is per cluster. You are not billed for replicated control planes. You can use the pricing calculator at https://cloud.google.com/products/calculator#tab=container to model pricing, but it should work out to $73/mo regardless of nodes or cluster size (again, because it's charged per-cluster). There's also one completely free zonal cluster for hobbyist projects.

We currently spin up dev clusters with a single node. $73/mo is going to basically double the cost of all of these..

For a dev environment, why not host your own hardware? Especially if cost is a concern, it seems like a no brainer.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, what is the best way to handle expiring credit cards? For one of my SaaS products, I give a 30 day grace period, then delete the data. If they didn't have a backup, that's on them... If they delete the droplet the second a single CC payment fails, that's one thing, but I don't believe that's how their system works.

If you are literally in the business of enabling, storing, and protecting production workloads, data, etc.. then catastrophic data loss should be an asbolute last resort. In both of these instances I am referring to a balance of less than $20. So for less than $20 (a few weeks late) DO says, welp fuck this customer we are going to terminate all of their resources immediately. This is what DO and others need to do: Pu…

I keep backups of my cloud data whenever possible. Mostly a couple hundred mb for small projects, I have been bitten by the same situation in the past

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#187
This entire kerfluffle is a microcosm of so many things wrong with the industry. First, so many people have decided to use k8 for wrong reasons that is mind boggling. Those are mainly customers. Customers are often led into decisions by their own developers who are more interested in learning new things or in making themselves attractive for the next job. Yes sales people from the providers also help make this happen but more often than not the customer walks themselves into walls.

The providers hawk shit like it's magic and overstate their capabilities ad nauseum. Everything is sold like fucking magic. AI has been so fucking overhyped that it is mind numbingly hard to even deal with peers who should know better. Because it involves a whole new class of jackasses who specialize in statistics it is being mass introduced into an ecosystem where programmers with years of experience feel out of their depth and are acting like rubes when they're fed pure crap.

Then there is "I want free or cheap" guy. No sympathy. Go to DO or whatever you think is the magical unicorn out. Or, dig in and put up your own damn control plane. Actually learn what the spaghetti hell of k8 is (all things that try to solve hard distributed problems are some level of spaghetti). 90% of free and cheap guy want to work on the next dick pic app so fuck em.

But most annoying is the degree of almost political like knee jerk behavior by a community filled with people who routinely sneer at the religious or emotional. Same fucking community that fights over shit like this, fight over which language is "better" based on nonsensical criteria and hasn't figured out that the less moving parts the better in a distributed system. Wonder how many tanked elections or other horseshit people in this industry have to pull before folks are like "Hey, all those arrogant fucksteins who want free food and 10 times everyone's salary need to start being accountable for the crap they do."

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seth — I appreciate you being here to take feedback, and for the clarification as well. The very surprising email I’ve received this morning is very hazy on the details, and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. The main issue is that not charging for the control plane and charging for the control plane leads to two very different Kubernetes architectures, and as per your docs, those decisions made at t…

> and the docs linked from the email are not updated yet. That about sums up most things Google does for developers.

I thought the standard advice for Google stuff was "there are always two systems - the undocumented one, and the deprecated one"

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#189

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

It's considerably cheaper than EKS. Looks like $75-80 a month vs I believe around $200 per EKS cluster. Everyone's having EKS cost problems while I'm just sitting over here paying nothing for ECS control planes.

I am not sure how you get to $200/month for an EKS cluster - it is $0.1/hr

https://aws.amazon.com/eks/pricing/

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#190
It's not so much about an additional fee (honestly, 0.10$ per hour are nothing) it's more about Googles practice of suddenly charging services, shutting down services as they like, not giving a shit about us customers. Azure and AWS are much more customer friendly here.
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