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Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

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Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#151
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the feedback. > Google's inability to actually commit to long term support... This is _exactly_ what Google is doing in this case. We are providing an SLA - a legal agreement of availability and support. These changes introduce a guaranteed availability of the management control plane.

He means that there was a sales pitch from all gcp sales guys to not charge for that. 99.95% is not enough IMO to charge 73$/mo. As someone else noted, it breaks a lot of recommended architectures where you would have auto provisioning and a lot of clusters to separate concerns and keep costs down. Finally, the pricing changes are starting to look like a pattern, every time Google deems the usage of a product is good…

> They are the Ryanair of the cloud.

Isn't Ryanair literally the Ryanair of the cloud(s)?

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#152
post #100
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently spin up dev clusters with a single node. $73/mo is going to basically double the cost of all of these..

This highlights a sorta-weird consequence of this pricing change: suddenly pricing incentivizes you to use namespacing instead of clusters for separating environments. (As a security person: ugh.)

You can dedicated nodes by namespace, at which point the isolation is pretty strong.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#153

Hey everyone - Seth from Google here. Please let us know if you have any questions! You can learn more about the pricing changes at https://cloud.google.com/kubernetes-engine/pricing .

Hey Seth, thanks for taking to the comments here; sad I wouldn't be able to catch one of your talks at Next this year in-person.

I'd like to share some feedback that echoes that of other commentators, from a different perspective.

I run a local cloud developer community with regional pull for attendees, as well as working directly with local early-stage startups looking to become cloud-native.

GCP has always been my go-to for recommendation for our attendees (mix of developers and technical founders, and some enterprise technology folks) given the affordability factor, pathways to additional credits to flesh out ideas, learn new technologies, or stretch the limited runway of their new organization, and ultimately my belief that GCP is one of, if not the best, clouds for developers given the investment in documentation and engagement DevRel channels.

With the rollback of open-enrollment into a smaller plan of Google Cloud for Startups, and price changes like this, I'm fearing I've chosen the wrong hill to die on when talking with these new customers.

I appreciate the inclusion of a free regional cluster per account, which will still afford myself the opportunity to demonstrate k8s at meetups and to end users without taking more of an out-of-pocket hit, and for folks to learn on their own or maintain hobbyist projects on the same budgets they are accustomed to.

My fear with this announcement is that the negative repercussions of this will not be felt on the bottom line or figures that it seems more and more is the priority of the Google Cloud leaders. Rather, it will be felt hardest by the smaller customers; the hobbyist developer or technical co-founder looking to learn new technologies, to scale up their operations, and who at least in my experience, are driving growth in the mindspace around GCP in their communities.

Put another way, moves like this will further tarnish the reputation of Google for those who the sales engineers have for the last two years, promoted heavily no cluster management fees like "the other guys," and in the eyes of many starting out in these areas (of which I recognize most will never become the big customers that satisfy the requirements of executives).

I hope that when the dust settles, this does not lead to a retraction of what makes Google Cloud great in my mind, which is specifically to developer experience and outreach.

With that in said, I would suggest really driving home this change through dismissable in-console communication at the point of cluster creation, on the dashboard, and in email communication to folks who this will impact, with a clear picture of the impact on them. No one wants another large disruption of thousands of small organizations and users, as was the case with the Google Maps pricing change.

Personally, I'd love to see it increased to one free regional or zonal cluster per account for the remainder of 2020, and then making only one zonal free per account effective 2021. Given the uncertainty around engineer capacity and scheduling given the ongoing human malware crisis affecting companies large and small, I think this could be a good middle ground to satisfy most customers affected by these changes, while still achieving the objective of moving this away from being a loss leader of sorts.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you These changes won't take effect until June - customers won't start getting billed immediately. I'm sorry that you feel trapped, that's not our intention. > You should keep existing clusters in the pricing model they’ve been built in, and apply this change for clusters created after today. This is great feedback, but clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets. I'd love to learn more about why your clus…

> This is great feedback, but clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets. I'd love to learn more about why your clusters must be so static. What’s inside our clusters are indeed cattle, but the clusters themselves do carry a lot of config that is set via GCP UI for trivial things like firewall rules. Of course we could script it and automate, but your CLI tool also changes fast enough that it becomes an ongoing…

Hmm - have you considered a tool like Terraform or Deployment manager for creating the clusters? In general, it's best practice to capture that configuration as code.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#155
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't that be opt-in? The management control plane is not something we consider critical to operations. I'd happily accept if it was unavailable for 1 and a half minutes a day versus these additional costs.

That's great feedback. I'll relay that to the product team. IANAL, but I think it would be legally challenging.

Hard to understand how it would be legally challenging. ISP's do it all the time when differentiating their business plans from residential. Both services run over the same infrastructure and you typically get the same/similar speeds, but a key difference is an SLA with the business plan.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#157

"Cloud computing is a trap, warns GNU founder Richard Stallman" [2008] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.com...

I know this is kinda against the guidelines, but just to highlight what an ideological war is being fought, at this moment, my parent post has received 5 upvotes and 6 downvotes, with the last 4 downvotes all occuring in the last minute.

On the content, RMS chose a colorful (insulting) language, yes, do hold that against him, because that is wrong, but in my opinion, at the core, his statements are quite legit.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#158
post #100
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We currently spin up dev clusters with a single node. $73/mo is going to basically double the cost of all of these..

This highlights a sorta-weird consequence of this pricing change: suddenly pricing incentivizes you to use namespacing instead of clusters for separating environments. (As a security person: ugh.)

As also a security person (:wave:), you can use dedicated node pools and workload identity to isolate workloads in the same cluster.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#159

This is awful - I don’t think GCP is fully aware of their position in the market as the second, inferior choice. I took a bet on the underdog by using GCP and they bit me back in return. Especially considering their ‘default’ kubernetes config automatically sets you up with three(!) control planes in replication, that’s, as far as I understand, $~300 added to our monthly bill, for nothing. Oh, and per their docs, thr…

It's considerably cheaper than EKS. Looks like $75-80 a month vs I believe around $200 per EKS cluster.

Everyone's having EKS cost problems while I'm just sitting over here paying nothing for ECS control planes.

Re: Google Kubernetes Engine is introducing a cluster management fee on June 6

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is great feedback, but clusters should be treated like cattle, not pets. I'd love to learn more about why your clusters must be so static. What’s inside our clusters are indeed cattle, but the clusters themselves do carry a lot of config that is set via GCP UI for trivial things like firewall rules. Of course we could script it and automate, but your CLI tool also changes fast enough that it becomes an ongoing…

Hmm - have you considered a tool like Terraform or Deployment manager for creating the clusters? In general, it's best practice to capture that configuration as code.

We use Skaffold and it’s great. I’m talking about very minor unforeseen stuff that causes outages, not that we do it manually.
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