For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality • Hacker News Board

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#111

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 12:54 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #109

ALittleLight wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In one scene, the poor mother says something like "If I was this rich, I'd be nice too" and then immediately scolds or hits a begging dog. In this scene, the poor woman is relatively rich - she has the house they've taken over for the weekend, plenty of food, and the dog is poor and begging. I interpreted this, as the two events happen one right after the other, as the movie clearly rejecting the woman's claim. Even…

> Other poor people aren't as mean. The original staff at the house are diligent workers. The original driver offers to go above and beyond to drive the sister home. The hidden family are dedicated servants. The first tutor tries to help his friend. The original housekeeper is literally lying to her employers, keeping her husband in their house in a secret compartment, where he steals food at night and terrifies thei…

My old minister said it this way "We can have all the morals we can afford".

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#112

Post by nickik » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

bildung wrote: post #105

2drew3 wrote: post #13

For those who watched the movie, I found the ending interesting. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but Bong Joon-ho made his perspective unambiguous: he's not a believer in social mobility in Korea. 6 of the top 10 Forbes list in Korea are self-made; the other 4 inherited their wealth. In contrast, 10 out of top 10 are self-made in the US. There are better metrics to compare social mobility (this one was convenient…

> 10 out of top 10 are self-made in the US Those seem to be outliers: "Of the over 60 percent [of the Forbes 400] remaining, all grew up in substantial privilege." https://inequality.org/research/selfmade-myth-hallucinating-...

Usually mobility doesn't happen in one generation but like 2-3. A poor person managed to get middle class or upper middle class and their children then are in prime position to make another jump.

If you just look at the Top 20% you can see how people drop into and out of it over generations.

So, garbage man to millionaire, is pretty rare if your grand father was a garbage man from Korea in the 70s your life now is probably comparable to most people from the US.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#113

Post by dsego » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #79

dsego wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was the difference between the rich and the poor family? Who is the parasite? What is it exactly that the rich family does better or gives to this world that they deserve the exceptionally better lifestyle? Are they more intelligent? Surely not, since they were duped by the other family. Do they really care about other people and what's going on in their surroundings? Not really, they never bothered to figure ou…

Is it made clear what the rich father does for work? We have no idea how great his contribution to society could be. He could be more intelligent and productive than the poor family. Just because some people deceive you (in your off time) doesn't mean they're smarter than you in any general sense. They do care who serves them; that's why they fire their driver for his perceived infractions, and housekeeper for her il…

> He could be more intelligent and productive than the poor family.

If I remember correctly, the ending scenes shows the son dreaming that he would study and work hard so he can finally afford the house and free his father. Do you think this is a realistic goal. How many years would it take him to buy such a mansion?

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#114

Post by ningen » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 1:46 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #42

Aunche wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were absolutely terrible people. They weren't so poor that they had to trigger an old lady's dangerous allergy just to get the mother a job.

One of the key findings of research done by Robert Sapolsky is that poverty, on a biological level, increases the tendency to prioritize short-term thinking over long-term thinking. This is not surprising, because people in poverty need to be opportunistic to survive. Cutthroat behavior in poverty is not an example of bad moral character, it's a valid strategy to make it day to day. Being generous is something one ha…

"Money smooths things out, like an iron"

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#115

Post by harimau777 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #93

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caregiving, in-home nursing care, rehabilitation and long-term care (assisted living/nursing home/hospice) should be provided by a different social safety net department because of it's specialized and complex nature that also requires licensure and auditing (making sure elderly and disabled aren't abused or neglected). Single-payer, universal healthcare should also include (all but cosmetic and elective procedures):…

> gym memberships for people below a certain income level why? this is a luxury. You don't need a gym membership - just jog around, it's free. Tax dollars are meant to pay for things that can't be free or have a free substitution.

Jogging around would not provide the same benefits as a proper strength training program. Theoretically bodyweight exercises could but that would require a level of gymnastics training that most people don't have.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#116

Post by enitihas » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:10 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #42

Aunche wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were absolutely terrible people. They weren't so poor that they had to trigger an old lady's dangerous allergy just to get the mother a job.

One of the key findings of research done by Robert Sapolsky is that poverty, on a biological level, increases the tendency to prioritize short-term thinking over long-term thinking. This is not surprising, because people in poverty need to be opportunistic to survive. Cutthroat behavior in poverty is not an example of bad moral character, it's a valid strategy to make it day to day. Being generous is something one ha…

I am not sure that is applicable to the movie scenario. When they go for the housekeeper job, the three of them were already making a huge amount of money, and the housekeeper job was likely not life changing for the family. But they still destroy the life of the current housekeeper. That could have been completely avoided, and would place them in the bottom 5% of a moral scale of people on their pay range if such a hypothetical scale existed.

Off course, poverty is hard and their moral actions should be seen along with their circumstances. But that way, you can find every evil doer to have some reasons for what they do. The family had become 3 jobs by the time they trigger the allergies, showing a complete lack of empathy on their part.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#117

Post by AQuantized » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:13 PM UTC

unishark wrote: post #101

kevingadd wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That question doesn't matter because national sovereignty would prevent other countries from doing that even if they wanted to. It's not a program it's even possible to consider without some really elaborate treaties that many countries would reject. At the core of it what you're basically arguing is that nations are unethical because what citizenship someone holds influences things like their access to health care,…

The logistics don't seem difficult at all to me if there's a will. People tend to be pretty accommodating when it comes to letting you give them money. At the very least, countries can offer a "medical visa" option to visitors. As for national borders being unethical by nature, if that logically follows then why not? I certainly don't consider ethics a source of "gotcha" questions, but of real conundrums.

As far as I'm aware, the NHS provides free healthcare to people visiting the UK.

As regards providing free healthcare to anyone regardless of country, that seems next to impossible without providing the infrastructure necessary within the country they live, which would indeed be very difficult to work out. It seems like a good goal to work towards - everyone regardless of nation having access to reasonable quality healthcare.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#118

Post by 9q9 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:28 PM UTC

netsharc wrote: post #74

2drew3 wrote: post #13

For those who watched the movie, I found the ending interesting. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but Bong Joon-ho made his perspective unambiguous: he's not a believer in social mobility in Korea. 6 of the top 10 Forbes list in Korea are self-made; the other 4 inherited their wealth. In contrast, 10 out of top 10 are self-made in the US. There are better metrics to compare social mobility (this one was convenient…

Bill Gates had rich parents, who bought a computer for his private school (ok maybe that's an urban legend, but Wikipedia says: When he was in the eighth grade, the Mothers' Club at the school used proceeds from Lakeside School's rummage sale to buy a Teletype Model 33 ASR terminal and a block of computer time on a General Electric (GE) computer for the students.). Zuck went to a private school. Not really basement d…

   Bill Gates had rich parents

So?

Lot's of people have rich parents (think, for example about the members of the House of Saud). How many of those raise to Bill Gates' level of excellence? He co-wrote a paper [1] as an undergraduate in a top mathematics journal. The algorithm he co-authored remained the best algorithm for its domain for 30 years.

As I used to notice this reaction in myself, and I've been trying to avoid it, I find it interesting to reflect on psychological/social function of the "but he had rich parents" reaction that successful children of the well-off get. HNs guidelines ask us "[p]lease don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work", and I wonder if this also applies to Gates.

I'm in awe of Gates' many achievements.

[1] W. H. Gates, C. H. Papadimitriou, Bounds for sorting by prefix reversal. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0012365X79...

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#119

Post by moksly » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #100

DanBC wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to buy a few patients 6 more months to live. More like two weeks, and with a lot of painful side effects. https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2097

Yeah, my SO is a nurse in paediatric oncology and has seen people from poorer countries sell everything they have in order to bring their child to Western hospitals in the futile hope of treatment. It's really sad and seems almost exploitative. They often get ripped off by private clinics in their home countries as well. At some point we need to say these people aren't in a fit state of mind to make these financial d…

I sincerely hope the European response to medicine prices that are so high that they cripple national economies will to set max prices or to completely nationalise production. Hopefully we’ll find a way to throw some jail time after the people responsible.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#120

Post by Aunche » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #70

Aunche wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cutthroat behavior in poverty is not an example of bad moral character I can tell that Dick Cheney is a shitty person, even though he donated more money than I'll make in several lifetimes to charity. Likewise, I can tell that the Kim family had poor moral character, even though they were in poverty. > it showcases how poverty itself forces people to engage in behaviour that makes others look down on them as undeser…

Here is an analysis of the movie which may clear some things up for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kx-gSK2C2Q

I skipped around, but this basically reinforces my point. The movie doesn't have the clear cut "eat the rich" narrative that people seem to imply. All the families are depicted as parasites. The poor are never excused for fighting amongst themselves.