For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality • Hacker News Board

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#91

Post by hocuspocus » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:19 AM UTC

L_Rahman wrote: post #24

httpz wrote: post #16

One unrealistic part about the poor family in the movie is that, there is no way a family of four healthy adults can be that poor in S.Korea (unless they have a large debt payment). If all four of them worked 40hrs/wk doing a minimum wage job ($7/hr in S.Korea), it puts them around $59k/yr, which is above the median household income.

Which they did. The movie mentions an unsuccessful attempt to be a franchisee of a food chain that later turned out to be a scam. That ended up bankrupting the family.

And this is not a view of the mind, the franchise that is hinted at in the movie is infamous. I don't think it was a scam per se, but a lot of people got burnt: https://blog.lewislee.net/parasite-the-tragedy-of-taiwanese-...

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#92

Post by watwut » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:20 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #85

watwut wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that you are simplifying those events quite a lot. The willingness of "bottom of the class hierarchy" to join counts for quite a lot. That is involvement and engagement in politics. The actual bottom is despised by everyone and comes with host of social problems. One of massive sparks for these political groups is fear that I will become part of the bottom . Both French Revolution and Russian one involved qui…

> The willingness of "bottom of the class hierarchy" to join counts for quite a lot. If this were true neither the Russian nor the French Revolution would have been a “success”. Both were won by committed minorities in the capital city and they were even less popular outside it. A small organized minority of people willing to use violence to achieve their goals who are good at it can overcome weak opposition from a m…

You basically count the one victorious group and ignore all the others.

Russian civil war involved 5 armies. It involved mobs attacking local leaders who fled - they were not necessary related to eventual winners.

French revolution was massively complex event too. Probably even more complex then Russian one.

And in each of these events there were more then one side commuting violence - and there were many people having or voicing opinions about what should happen. That they lost does not mean they don't exist.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#93

Post by chii » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:43 AM UTC

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #65

akiselev wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal healthcare means that any required medical treatment is free at the point of use but it does not usually pay for every possible quality of life intervention like a part/full time caregiver. Given the side effects from cancer treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Kim had to go to work but didn't want to leave his wife at home, weak and helpless, for the duration of his absence. Even if universal healthcar…

Caregiving, in-home nursing care, rehabilitation and long-term care (assisted living/nursing home/hospice) should be provided by a different social safety net department because of it's specialized and complex nature that also requires licensure and auditing (making sure elderly and disabled aren't abused or neglected). Single-payer, universal healthcare should also include (all but cosmetic and elective procedures):…

> gym memberships for people below a certain income level

why? this is a luxury. You don't need a gym membership - just jog around, it's free. Tax dollars are meant to pay for things that can't be free or have a free substitution.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#94

Post by abvr » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:45 AM UTC

kaiabwpdjqn wrote: post #27

hristov wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main point is they couldn't get jobs. At one point in the movie they said that every job opening for a security guard draws 500 applicants with college degrees. None of them had college degrees. I am not sure what the actual job situation in S. Korea is. Perhaps someone that lives there can enlighten us.

Exactly. All of them were qualified for the jobs they did. They did a good job too. The daughter is a bit of an exception. The daughter is constantly depicted at someone who is exceptionally talented, although has no paper credentials for the job she does. The family makes multiple comments about good she is at things and how she belongs in the wealthy lifestyle. When everyone is wading through the sewage water (moti…

Aslo ends up being ironically, kinda of the scapegoat for no fault of hers, other than the fact that she was the mastermind of the whole operation?

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#95

Post by js8 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:50 AM UTC

remote_phone wrote: post #9

I didn’t get the sense it was class strife. The main family was a bunch of scumbags. They lied and cheated constantly. I didn’t get the sense that they represented the lower class because the others around them weren’t like that. It makes it harder to argue this represents class struggle when the main family is so deceitful and undeserving of benefits.

> They lied and cheated constantly. I didn’t get the sense that they represented the lower class because the others around them weren’t like that. It makes it harder to argue this represents class struggle when the main family is so deceitful and undeserving of benefits.

The Park family was so nice, always honest and considerate of other people! I didn't get the sense they represented the upper class, because frankly, where was the psychopathic ruthlessness of bankers and CEOs?

It makes it harder to argue this represents class struggle when the Park family is so modest, and shows that we can all unite together in peace without brutal day-to-day competition.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#96

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 10:52 AM UTC

Hydraulix989 wrote: post #68

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caregiving, in-home nursing care, rehabilitation and long-term care (assisted living/nursing home/hospice) should be provided by a different social safety net department because of it's specialized and complex nature that also requires licensure and auditing (making sure elderly and disabled aren't abused or neglected). Single-payer, universal healthcare should also include (all but cosmetic and elective procedures):…

Hearing aids are insanely overpriced for being a glorified microphone and earphone. $30 in parts.

If you know they are overpriced, and assuming you are interested in earning money, why are you not selling hearing aids for cheaper than the incumbents and taking their margin?

If you’re not interested in earning money, then there are quite a few firms that are, so if you release the schematics and details of the hearing aid, surely they will run with it.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#97

Post by barry-cotter » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 11:11 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #92

barry-cotter wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The willingness of "bottom of the class hierarchy" to join counts for quite a lot. If this were true neither the Russian nor the French Revolution would have been a “success”. Both were won by committed minorities in the capital city and they were even less popular outside it. A small organized minority of people willing to use violence to achieve their goals who are good at it can overcome weak opposition from a m…

You basically count the one victorious group and ignore all the others. Russian civil war involved 5 armies. It involved mobs attacking local leaders who fled - they were not necessary related to eventual winners. French revolution was massively complex event too. Probably even more complex then Russian one. And in each of these events there were more then one side commuting violence - and there were many people havi…

I’m not ignoring the other groups, they’re irrelevant to my point, that the bottom doesn’t matter politically. All five groups were well educated, rich and cosmopolitan compared to the average Russian during the civil war.

That the French and Russian revolutions were complex doesn’t mean that the competitors for political power were ever in any way representative of the population. They weren’t. They were members of the elite or had been educated to a level that they aspired to that.

They weren’t on the bottom. The people on the bottom do not successfully engage in politics except as the tools of the current elite or of a counter-elite that aims to take over from the current elite.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#98

Post by kevingadd » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 11:13 AM UTC

unishark wrote: post #89

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but that's wrong because that's trying to twist the meaning of words. No money, no healthcare isn't universal obviously. With no single-payer, government-funded, healthcare system, only doctors and patients who have to pay for everything themselves, that is in no way "universal healthcare." The problem with charging poor people for healthcare is that they get sicker and sicker and then need emergency care,…

> It's unethical and classist to pick-and-choose who gets life-saving cancer treatment based on their income. Since we're talking ethics, do you also think universal healthcare should be provided by wealthy nations to all the world? Otherwise we are just picking and choosing based on where someone happens to be born, aren't we?

That question doesn't matter because national sovereignty would prevent other countries from doing that even if they wanted to. It's not a program it's even possible to consider without some really elaborate treaties that many countries would reject.

At the core of it what you're basically arguing is that nations are unethical because what citizenship someone holds influences things like their access to health care, and the solution to that would probably look a lot like the EU but completely borderless world-wide (with no immigrations or customs departments?)

I think you know how people would react to that. It's a pointless 'gotcha' question

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#99

Post by golergka » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 11:24 AM UTC

2drew3 wrote: post #13

For those who watched the movie, I found the ending interesting. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but Bong Joon-ho made his perspective unambiguous: he's not a believer in social mobility in Korea. 6 of the top 10 Forbes list in Korea are self-made; the other 4 inherited their wealth. In contrast, 10 out of top 10 are self-made in the US. There are better metrics to compare social mobility (this one was convenient…

> he's not a believer in social mobility in Korea

> it's impossible for basement dwellers to make it to nice mansions

Did we watch the same movie? The contrast between two families depicted on screen, their woth ethic and simple human morals is so stark that it seems even more right-wing than I am. I don't believe that there's a social justice to be achieved in society as a whole, but as you watch the movie (especially the later part), I can't imagine how could you possibly sympathize with the poor family.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#100

Post by alexgmcm » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 11:51 AM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #71

moksly wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in countries like Denmark we’re forced to deny certain cancer treatments because the cost of their medicine is so high it would cripple our entire healthcare system to buy a few patients 6 more months to live. You can debate the morality of such a discussion, or how the private medicine industry is allowed to charge these prices, but the effect is that some cancer treatments are only available through private in…

> to buy a few patients 6 more months to live. More like two weeks, and with a lot of painful side effects. https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2097

Yeah, my SO is a nurse in paediatric oncology and has seen people from poorer countries sell everything they have in order to bring their child to Western hospitals in the futile hope of treatment.

It's really sad and seems almost exploitative. They often get ripped off by private clinics in their home countries as well.

At some point we need to say these people aren't in a fit state of mind to make these financial decisions. (Who would be? When the life of their own child seems to be at stake?)

It's such a sad situation.