For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality • Hacker News Board

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#61

Post by jandrewrogers » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 6:56 AM UTC

immawizard wrote: post #22

2drew3 wrote: post #13

For those who watched the movie, I found the ending interesting. I won't spoil it for everyone else, but Bong Joon-ho made his perspective unambiguous: he's not a believer in social mobility in Korea. 6 of the top 10 Forbes list in Korea are self-made; the other 4 inherited their wealth. In contrast, 10 out of top 10 are self-made in the US. There are better metrics to compare social mobility (this one was convenient…

I think social mobility from poverty to middle class is more relevant to most people than mobility from millionaire to billionaire class. According to The Global Social Mobility Report 2020 [1] South Korea has higher level of social mobility than United States. [1] http://www3.weforum.org/docs/Global_Social_Mobility_Report.p...

As a metric, "social mobility" does not mean what most people intuit it means. Someone who, in real PPP terms from the same base, doubles their income may be wildly "socially mobile" in one country and not in the other, even though their absolute outcome is identical. This is because it is a function of income distribution which varies widely and is partly a function of country size.

Many people who are "socially mobile" in a country with compressed income ranges, like Denmark, will be objectively worse off economically (PPP) than many people who are not "socially mobile" in a country with wide income ranges, like the US. Income distributions need to be similar for social mobility comparisons.

Most people readily prefer a "non-socially mobile" increase in income if it is greater in absolute PPP terms than smaller "socially mobile" income increases. In these comparison cases, which are not uncommon, there is literally no benefit to being "socially mobile" in a country with compressed income ranges.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#62

Post by redis_mlc » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 6:56 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #5

madengr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Mr. Kim owns his place in the building, bought for $30,000 after he sold his house in a better neighborhood 20 years ago to help pay for his late wife’s cancer bills.” How does that fit into universal health care?

Indeed. "Universal healthcare" in some countries doesn't mean "we'll pay for everything including the latest and greatest cancer drugs."

> the latest and greatest cancer drugs.

My understanding is that cancer drugs are considered to be experimental, so there's no "latest and greatest" with any guarantee.

Also, US doctors usually prefer to not get cancer treatment when interviewed, since they know "how the sausage is made."

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#63

Post by dsego » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 6:59 AM UTC

remote_phone wrote: post #53

cycrutchfield wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They lied and cheated constantly because they were forced to due their poverty. It is absolutely a movie about class inequality and resentment.

They weren’t scumbags because they were poor. They were poor because they were scumbags. That was what I saw. They were an entire family of cheaters and liars but none of the other characters in the same economic class were like that. The rich people were never mean or overbearing to less well off people and treated their workers well. The workers were very loyal to them until the family lied and cheated their way in…

What was the difference between the rich and the poor family? Who is the parasite? What is it exactly that the rich family does better or gives to this world that they deserve the exceptionally better lifestyle?

Are they more intelligent? Surely not, since they were duped by the other family. Do they really care about other people and what's going on in their surroundings? Not really, they never bothered to figure out any of it, they are blissfully unaware of the of the less fortunate, untouched by the reality around them until it affects them directly. They don't care who serves them. Are they more virtuous? Not exactly, look at how they behave on the party when the girl gets stabbed. The dad takes his boy who fainted and tries to pick up the car keys, all the while pinching his nose in disgust of the 'poor people smell'. Does he help any of the wounded people? What are their actions?

> The rich people were never mean or overbearing to less well off people and treated their workers well.

How about the part when they act like they own them? One example is dad having to wear a costume for the boy because the boss is paying overtime for his non-working day. The driver dad is not exactly in a position to refuse or he could ruin his position (we saw how easy it is to get replaced), so he has to put up with it, humiliate himself and play the clown. The rich dad doesn't see how this is a problem, money should buy everything after all.

The movie is an allegory and it requires a deeper look and a bit of thinking. Contrast and compare this movie to 'Us', you will find similarities in how it deals with social class.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#64

Post by redis_mlc » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 7:01 AM UTC

barry-cotter wrote: post #41

totorovirus wrote: post #28

One of the most interesting culture in South korea is that under treated low class people (dirt-spoon class) don't really try disrupt current society model. To elaborate, people put poverty on their own responsibility rather than complaining about structural inequality. The rage towards class inequality is emitted at competition for higher ranked university and the reward of being in a prestigious college.

Always and everywhere the people at the bottom of the class hierarchy have enough problems that complaining about inequality or engaging in politics is not a priority. Social unrest is always about conflict within the elite or wannabe elite. The American Revolution was led by the richest of Americans. The French Revolution was led by the highly educated as was the Russian one. We have one historical example of a succ…

And Trump populism is another example of the poor rebelling.

Although them voting in a billionaire kinda defies logic, but hey, there's only two parties, plus Trump! :)

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#65

Post by anonsivalley652 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 7:01 AM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #55

madengr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Mr. Kim owns his place in the building, bought for $30,000 after he sold his house in a better neighborhood 20 years ago to help pay for his late wife’s cancer bills.” How does that fit into universal health care?

Universal healthcare means that any required medical treatment is free at the point of use but it does not usually pay for every possible quality of life intervention like a part/full time caregiver. Given the side effects from cancer treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Kim had to go to work but didn't want to leave his wife at home, weak and helpless, for the duration of his absence. Even if universal healthcar…

Caregiving, in-home nursing care, rehabilitation and long-term care (assisted living/nursing home/hospice) should be provided by a different social safety net department because of it's specialized and complex nature that also requires licensure and auditing (making sure elderly and disabled aren't abused or neglected).

Single-payer, universal healthcare should also include (all but cosmetic and elective procedures):

- prescriptions

- mental care including therapy, psychiatry, rehab and commitment

- dental care

- vision care and prescription glasses

- hearing aids (avg cost is $3000 USD)

- mobility and safety aids for disabled and elderly

- gym memberships for people below a certain income level

- smoking, drinking and substance abuse intervention, counseling and cessation assistance (medications, tools, relocation assistance)

- weight-loss for obesity/significantly overweight with effective, tailored, holistic approaches

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#66

Post by Melting_Harps » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 7:24 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #26

httpz wrote: post #16

One unrealistic part about the poor family in the movie is that, there is no way a family of four healthy adults can be that poor in S.Korea (unless they have a large debt payment). If all four of them worked 40hrs/wk doing a minimum wage job ($7/hr in S.Korea), it puts them around $59k/yr, which is above the median household income.

What would life be like for 4 people on median wage, though? Did they live in a slummy part of Seoul? Or were they in an expensive part in a crappy house? If a family of four tried to live in Santa Monica on $59k -- they would only have $39k after taxes. You can't rent even a single shitty room for less than $1k per month. That leaves them $500 a month per person. Health care would take at least $58 (the fine if you…

> If a family of four tried to live in Santa Monica on $59k

I've been watching K-cinema on/off for a few years, old boy really f'd me up even though I thought I got used things like Bijita Q type J-films. But, if you're looking for what that would look like via a Korean-Californian perspective watch Ms. Purple:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYh3MAE0b4

It makes the plight of the Korean immigrant, and ultimate success in LA, all the more poignant. I was a SoCal kid during the LA riots when K-town was burned to the ground and many were left destitute and went bankrupt, now K-town is most of DTLA and has expanded into a lot of Orange County displacing a lot of the Japanese and even some of the mainly Chinese influences.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#67

Post by jwilber » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 7:39 AM UTC

lurquer wrote: post #54

Parasite gives one the same degree of insight about Korean culture as Raising Arizona does about American culture. WTF, HackerNews? All this pretentious pontificating about the deeper meaning of a dark comedy (which could be set in ANY culture or locale with very few changes...) Whats next? A thread about the subtleties of Korean culture revealed in Gangham Style? Read a book.

How wild that this comment is the most pretentious thing in the entire thread.

The article is a straightforward piece on living situations in Seoul. Maybe next time give it a read before commenting.

In any case, please DO continue ending your comments with those authoritative one-liners. (Such an enigma!)

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#68

Post by Hydraulix989 » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 7:40 AM UTC

anonsivalley652 wrote: post #65

akiselev wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal healthcare means that any required medical treatment is free at the point of use but it does not usually pay for every possible quality of life intervention like a part/full time caregiver. Given the side effects from cancer treatment, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr Kim had to go to work but didn't want to leave his wife at home, weak and helpless, for the duration of his absence. Even if universal healthcar…

Caregiving, in-home nursing care, rehabilitation and long-term care (assisted living/nursing home/hospice) should be provided by a different social safety net department because of it's specialized and complex nature that also requires licensure and auditing (making sure elderly and disabled aren't abused or neglected). Single-payer, universal healthcare should also include (all but cosmetic and elective procedures):…

Hearing aids are insanely overpriced for being a glorified microphone and earphone. $30 in parts.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#69

Post by moksly » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 8:05 AM UTC

madengr wrote: post #4

danans wrote: post #3

As much as it pointed out the serious inequality issues facing South Korea, the movie also highlighted the fact that the poor in South Korea have access to healthcare free at the point of service. It also depicted young people who, despite their poverty, had enough access to schooling that they could serve as English tutors to the wealthy (yes, I'm aware that SK's education system has other issues related to it being…

“ Mr. Kim owns his place in the building, bought for $30,000 after he sold his house in a better neighborhood 20 years ago to help pay for his late wife’s cancer bills.” How does that fit into universal health care?

Even in countries like Denmark we’re forced to deny certain cancer treatments because the cost of their medicine is so high it would cripple our entire healthcare system to buy a few patients 6 more months to live.

You can debate the morality of such a discussion, or how the private medicine industry is allowed to charge these prices, but the effect is that some cancer treatments are only available through private insurance or personal wealth, even in Scandinavian countries where we are know for our equal access healthcare.

Re: For Seoul’s poor, class strife in ‘Parasite’ is daily reality

#70

Post by Apocryphon » Wed, Mar 04, 2020, 8:07 AM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #58

Barrin92 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the key findings of research done by Robert Sapolsky is that poverty, on a biological level, increases the tendency to prioritize short-term thinking over long-term thinking. This is not surprising, because people in poverty need to be opportunistic to survive. Cutthroat behavior in poverty is not an example of bad moral character, it's a valid strategy to make it day to day. Being generous is something one ha…

>Cutthroat behavior in poverty is not an example of bad moral character I can tell that Dick Cheney is a shitty person, even though he donated more money than I'll make in several lifetimes to charity. Likewise, I can tell that the Kim family had poor moral character, even though they were in poverty. > it showcases how poverty itself forces people to engage in behaviour that makes others look down on them as undeser…

Here is an analysis of the movie which may clear some things up for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kx-gSK2C2Q