We’re putting more grad students through the system than the economy is willing to absorb. Is higher wages going to help or hurt this problem? (PhD here with first hand experience of that opportunity cost)
UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
321–330 of 445 posts
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#322Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, what to the grad students at UCSC do if they weren't represented at the bargaining table by their own union in the first place? The agreement is not one the grad students at UCSC and UCSC, but with the grad students at all UC campuses with the University of California, et al. 83% of UCSC grad students opposed the original UC wide negotiation because the salary minimums did not take into account the…
That's between them and their union - they can stop paying union dues, they can leave the union.
No, they can't. That would be illegal in this circumstance.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#323Earlier quoted context omitted.
PhD in Europe is different than in the US. There's is very little industry-academia support in terms of working while doing your PhD. From Princeton's policies, particularly the last sentence: "Graduate study at Princeton, at both the doctoral and, in most cases, the master’s level, requires full-time commitment to study and research on the part of students. The Graduate School’s financial support structure, which ex…
You're talking about having a side job while doing a PhD. GP is talking about (as I understand it - not to put words in their mouth) having a job that will let you take some of the work you do there and turn it into a PhD. Which, admittedly, is not a very well-known or advertised route, but one that is a much better deal than the 'take internship-level pay for years for the privilege of being exploited or ignored'.
No, I am also talking about the same thing. But you correctly distinguish Europe vs. US. To make progress towards your PhD while working for company in the US, you typically need to be enrolled in a department approved "class" that is basically an internship. To be enrolled in these classes, you need to be a full-time student. Most departments outside of CS and EE don't allow for these courses. Obviously, this is going to be highly nuanced with regard to how each university/department implements it. For example, my department only allows summer internships and requires approval from Advisor and Director of Graduate Studies.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#324Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which just underlies the problem with unions: not only they are compulsory institutions that force you into their ranks whether you want it or not, but even those who join them don't get a fair representation and have to strike on their own.
Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. A union-negotiated contract that's better than the one you'd get without the union is, well, better. It might not be "fair" or flawless, but it's still better.
Unless it’s worse. The assumption that forming a union and entering into effectively hostile negotiations with the company will result in a better compensation is unfounded.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#325Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which just underlies the problem with unions: not only they are compulsory institutions that force you into their ranks whether you want it or not, but even those who join them don't get a fair representation and have to strike on their own.
Define "fair representation" And, tell me how not having any union is better for all than an imperfect union.
Higher compensation, no protection for incompetent people, reward for productivity and innovation instead of seniority, etc.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#326I'm an undergrad at UCSC right now and have found the entire strike to be more detrimental to their cause. They've lost so much undergrad support after disrupting a STEM midterm and shutting down campus causing us to miss the classes we have paid for. I even lost my grades last quarter as my TA was fired ( of the 54 ) and he has refused to hand them over post firing. What it has done to the undergraduates is a little…
There seems to be a history of strikes at UCSC alienating the rank and file. Strikes are supposed to squeeze the employer, e.g. because their factory isn't producing and the employer is losing face & sales to competitors. All the strikes at UCSC seem to wind up squeezing the student body, which 1) doesn't call the shots and 2) is paying fixed costs. Last one I remember was a transit strike where the strikers closed a…
Congratulations, you have both fallen into the position that the University wants you to.
UCSC can easily marshal the resources to get your grades, get you graduated, etc. The fact that UCSC chooses not to in order to divide you from the strikers is intentional.
People don't go on strike because it's fun or popular. And strikes are not meant to be convenient.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#327I got filled with righteous internet rage when I read the headline, but then I read the article. The particular strike was implemented by withholding fall grades, which seems to unnecessarily burden students who are to be buried under crushing debt, no? Also, they are apparently unionized and this strike was against the extant agreements. The consequences of not getting a grade can affect a student’s entire career an…
It's like protests is meant to cause a disruption. I really have a terrible place in my heart for people who criticize protests because it caused a disruption. That's the point of a protest. I'm very happy for you that you've never felt the need to take these drastic steps, but they're protesting real issues and real problems they're having. The grades are ultimately the universities problem
Ok, so how about next time I'm mad about something I throw a brick through your window? That should cause some disruption and make you pay attention.
Dirsupting uninvolved people to get attention is self-serving and short-sighted. You do that to me and I will be against your cause for sure.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#328Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm. Even if TAs don't assign grades for a course, if they refuse to grade the assignments that can make it extremely difficult for the professor to give the students accurate grades.
The prof would have to just go through the stack themselves then.
I think "just" is underselling it a little. When we would grade exams it was quite an ordeal. The professor and all the IAs (maybe 5-8) would be in a room and grade all day long. We would order food delivered to the room so we could keep grading straight through meals.
Having 1 person do all that work would be intimidating.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#329Earlier quoted context omitted.
Grad students at UCSC didn't arbitrarily think the deal they struck isn't good enough anymore, they never thought it was good enough in the first place. 83% of UCSC grad students felt the minimums outlined in the agreement, which was a UC wide agreement and not between UCSC and the UCSC grad students by the way, were insufficient for the growing rents in Santa Cruz. This 13m number isn't arbitrary. In fact that $1400…
But at UCSC they do this every year . Here's news on the strike from 2018: https://news.ucsc.edu/2018/05/strike-updates.html Here's news on the strike from 2017: https://news.ucsc.edu/2017/01/strike-message.html There's reason to believe that no matter what deal was reached, they would just strike again next year, to try to get more money. How much is enough?
I noticed your two links mention different unions striking; some further research might be important here. One of your links is not graduate students striking, but the union for skilled workers at UCSC. The other is a union-sanctioned strike during (I think) a contract negotiation year. Neither is representative of the assertion that graduate students strike every year.
Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay
#330Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then live off-campus? Or live in a 3 or 4 bedroom unit on-campus?
And what do you know, the rents are still high. At what point do we realize that an administrator making 600k a year off the backs of people toiling long hours in labs to bring in grant money for the school and coming home to live in tenement conditions isn't the fault of the students, but the administrators making half a million dollars a year? Quite a hill to die on.
An administrator is paid that much because that is how much value they provide to the university system. A graduate student provides minimal value, in fact barely above replacement level. That’s why they are a student.
Are you a grad student? And you never took an economics course? This is pretty basic material.