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UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

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Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpsons grad student sketch is different kind of funny for different people. For most people it's funny because it's exaggeration, for others it's funny because it's so close to reality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqrCoyVK80I --- On more serious note, grad student working for next to nothing serves similar function as unpaid internships in companies and politics. Some positions are designed to help young people…

> If you have trust fund, career in politics, academia or high profile law and financial firms is much easier. I'm having trouble parsing that

Only kids from wealthy families can afford to move to say DC or NY and spend a year there on an unpaid internship. So that becomes a selection criteria to exclude those from poor and middle classes from advancing in those domains.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#23
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

Society needs researchers - it doesn’t need actors.

Who's going to entertain the researchers when they're not working? Or do you imagine they'll simply work every waking hour?

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#24
I got filled with righteous internet rage when I read the headline, but then I read the article.

The particular strike was implemented by withholding fall grades, which seems to unnecessarily burden students who are to be buried under crushing debt, no? Also, they are apparently unionized and this strike was against the extant agreements.

The consequences of not getting a grade can affect a student’s entire career and ability to sustain themselves financially.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#25
post #7

Just 1.5 generations ago, University was for those who could afford it. Many grad student programs today are in that category. This category of people competing for jobs otherwise filled by individuals with wealth will always exist, there's no 'solution' to this problem. I think it's best to not take those jobs and to find a cost-efficient way to get through grad school. If people did this, the system would change. T…

> Just 1.5 generations ago, University was for those who could afford it.

Not the UC/CSU systems, which is what this topic is about; they were primarily little to no cost universities 1.5 generation ago--depending on your residence. It wasn't until the administration bloat and race to capture as much foreign students/funding became the name of the game that it has become this cesspool.

Hell, in my freshman and sophomore year as an in-state student costs were sub 10k a year, it wasn't until the bubble got so big in 2007 (just before the financial crisis) that it became the sordid bacchanal, cash grab you see now. It mirrored the Banking Industry so well in my opinion, and just like banking it never corrected and just doubled down and it too has created a Trillion+ bubble and perpetual servitude and permanent underclass(es) ripe for exploitation.

And just so its clear, the CSU/UC system is only the most affordable in the US if you are not from CA; if you are, especially if you are multi-generational, because of the high tax levels in CA its probably on-par with some Ivy leagues and upper level tech schools.

I won't dispute your analysis on University as whole, as I have much more to say on the matter, but I agree with your conclusion. For most University (on ROI at least), especially if not in a lucartive field of STEM, it's just not worth it if you're technically inclined and have an disciplined autodidactic streak. But many seem to be looking for an 'experience' more than they are an actual useful education in a chosen discipline, which is why these predatory practices not only proceed to this day, but excel as they do, hence why so many are willing to accept such awful loans to do so--I can't help but think of the way many hapless souls got suckered into sub-prime mortgages.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#26
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you (and others) think that education and academia is somehow special and not the same as, say, acting (or any career) where people regularly earn no money and work bad 2nd jobs just to survive and do something they love or want as a career? In a free market system nobody is telling you to choose that career and a University and (typically) a non-profit doesn't have any particular incentive to not act in their…

Society needs researchers - it doesn’t need actors.

I don’t want to live in whatever society you’re projecting here. I think that statement is incredibly narrow-minded. We need both.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#27
post #2

I lived on 54 cent pancakes covered in free butter and honey, 9 cents per can baked beans (turns out I don't like baked beans, I like good sauce which this was not), and candy bars out of a broken and never fixed candy machine. I don't recommend it. I weighed 110 pounds by the time I left. All of my money went to dorm housing (paid to the school). Later when I was a researcher I found out that the Provost takes 55% o…

In college, a professor recommended me for an academic award from industry. It was $1000. So I go to the yearly awards dinner and a month later got a check for $800. Apparently the university takes a 20% as administrative cost!

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty simplistic view of society. Do we need not need novels or music either? Let's drink nothing but soylent and devote 80 hours per week to our STEM careers

People literally die without research into things like drugs. They don’t die without movies.

There's more to living than not dying.

Re: UC Santa Cruz fires 54 grad students who were striking for higher pay

#29
post #27
post #2

I lived on 54 cent pancakes covered in free butter and honey, 9 cents per can baked beans (turns out I don't like baked beans, I like good sauce which this was not), and candy bars out of a broken and never fixed candy machine. I don't recommend it. I weighed 110 pounds by the time I left. All of my money went to dorm housing (paid to the school). Later when I was a researcher I found out that the Provost takes 55% o…

In college, a professor recommended me for an academic award from industry. It was $1000. So I go to the yearly awards dinner and a month later got a check for $800. Apparently the university takes a 20% as administrative cost!

That's actually low! Most of the Universities we've explored research grants with wanted 45-65% overhead for the university, then another 10-15 for Research organization, with the remainder sorted between the researchers / company. We found it was actually just cheaper to pay for the research ourselves and hire the students directly for part time work than go through the grant process.

I sat on a couple school boards for a while, all that was ever discussed was fund raising and how we should be contributing more. Very little focus on education. Sadly it's turned me off spending time with Schools and just targeting students / researchers directly.

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