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Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

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Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#281

Post by diegoperini »

stedaniels wrote: post #255
diegoperini wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you are awesome, really :) Second, a bunch of honest questions: Did you consult to your supervisor (or anyone with authority) to be able to bypass the support process (if there is any) like this? If so what was the response? If the response was negative, how did you convince people? After things resolve, can you kindly post how many spam or unrelated emails you receive so that it will be an example to the indu…

jgrahamc is the CTO of Cloudflare. His only supervisor is eastdakota/ Matthew Prince, the CEO of Cloudflare.

Then I'd like to know the CEO's opinion then.

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#282

Post by adar »

melq wrote: post #206
jgrahamc wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he’d emailed me directly I would have done the same thing I did. I emailed the head of engineering and support and asked for an explanation. I then jumped into the relevant chat room. I do this sort of thing all the time. Sure, it’s unfortunate this is #1 on HN, but shrug. Fixing the problem and figured out what happened is important.

How was he supposed to know to email you?

I don't think he's saying that OP should've known to email him, just that he would've done the same thing over private emails where nobody was watching, as he is doing here publicly.

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#283

Post by ajonit »

jgrahamc wrote: post #83

This is being looked into internally and I am involved. Likely won’t post an update here as it pertains to a customer account (unless customer agrees). BTW If you, dear reader, ever find yourself so frustrated with Cloudflare that you feel like your only recourse is a blog post... my email is jgc@cloudflare.com and I’m happy to hear from people.

Now that the OP has given a go ahead to go public, We will eagerly wait for your update jgc

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#284

Post by cnst »

SahAssar wrote: post #211
mark_and_sweep wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not Firefox becoming less and less viable. This is developers caring less and less about supporting older browsers, less capable hardware and, I guess, long-term maintenance in general. Just had a similar case today: My Mom tried to order something online on her old Android tablet - and it didn't work. She blamed the tablet for it, saying "It's just too old, it doesn't work correctly anymore! I used to be abl…

Well, it's also a problem of device manufacturers dropping support for devices too quickly. There are still android 4.1 devices sold on amazon, and you really can't expect web developers to support that. The manufacturer should be required to support it for the full lifetime of the device. Especially since your mom uses it to order stuff, which usually includes some pretty security sensitive information. I think you…

> Well, it's also a problem of device manufacturers dropping support for devices too quickly. There are still android 4.1 devices sold on amazon, and you really can't expect web developers to support that.

Are you kidding me? If you're looking for shiny stuff to add to your resume, yeah, you can't possibly support those! If you're an HTML5 game developer, yeah, gotta use the latest and greatest. But if you're in the business of selling shoes, why do you need anything newer than Android 4.1 in order to process the transactions?!

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#285

Post by jlawer »

bradknowles wrote: post #242
jlawer wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$300 becomes a pretty high barrier for a lot of people. There a places with decent connectivity where that is a good weeks wages

A single dollar is a high barrier for some people. You need an adjustable amount that is based on the annual income/revenue of the person/entity making the request. Make it high enough to be non-trivial, but not so high that it blocks all effective usage of the safety valve. Now, if you can solve that problem, I've got some bridges for you in Arizona.

I think the only sane thing you can do is price it at the cost it takes to review it. It will still be out of reach of some people, but at least its not arbitory.

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#286

Post by cnst »

Legogris wrote: post #36
throwawaydns101 wrote: post #10

DNS has become frighteningly unreliable. Here are previous stories that show how it is possible to lose access to your domain for no fault of yours: (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21700139 - Sinkholed (2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19322966 - I lost my domain and everything that goes with it No different than this story where the author's DNS records were deleted because of so called "anomaly". He…

I looked into self-hosting DNS and it doesn't seem like that big of a deal as long as you can ensure uptime to be honest. If you set up the two first on different hosts and possibly have #3/4 being cloud providers I think you're pretty good. Does anyone here have experience with running their own DNS servers for their domains?

You don't even need multiple servers (especially if both your website and mail run on the same server), it's a misconception debunked by the author of djbdns:

http://cr.yp.to/djbdns/third-party.html

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#287

Post by cabaalis »

kortilla wrote: post #221
cabaalis wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may be right, but knowing "who's who" is very largely how general business gets done. Buying services over the internet from an anonymous black box with no support is a recent disruption.

No, normally you didn’t have to know someone in the C suite to “get business done”. That’s totally unscalable. What’s a recent development is the complete lack of support when shit goes south. Back when you were interacting with real reps you had people that could see when stuff was obviously wrong and escalate appropriately.

Did I say anything about C-suite? Your point is nearly word for word the same as mine, I'm not sure why you're replying as a refutation.

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#288

Post by djsumdog »

craftinator wrote: post #229
djsumdog wrote: post #17

I really had a strong dislike for Cloudflare after they banned certain customers for political reasons[1]. The CEO mentioned how maybe it wasn't the right thing to do .. and then they did it again. There aren't really any self-hosted solutions for DDoS protection like Cloudflare since it requires things happening in the network layer. Implementing a solution would require access to monitor and reshape the local netwo…

If you run a restaurant, you can refuse to do business with anyone you choose. If that was not the case, you would effectively be a slave; unable to choose actions for yourself and your business. Cloudflare refused to do business with people and content; that is their prerogative.

Did you read the article I wrote/cited?

> A store cannot have blacks only and whites only bathrooms or water fountains. Bars and restaurants in some jurisdictions can allow smoking within their establishments, while in other municipalities, smoking indoors is banned for all businesses. Companies who chose to be equal opportunity employers have several criteria for which they cannot discriminate against. Laws such as the Americans with Disabilities Act mandates certain accessibility requirements in order to maintain a storefront ... Speech does not yet fall into any of these existing regularity frameworks.

So no, you're wrong. You cannot refuse to do business with anyone you choose. The Colorado cake case is a really special one, because it had to do with art. As an artist, you can refuse a commission to build a creative work if it goes against your values. The guy who ran that shop just stopped accepting custom orders, and then later got in trouble again when he refused to sell plain non-custom cupcakes to a gay couple.

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#289

Post by SahAssar »

mark_and_sweep wrote: post #228
SahAssar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's also a problem of device manufacturers dropping support for devices too quickly. There are still android 4.1 devices sold on amazon, and you really can't expect web developers to support that. The manufacturer should be required to support it for the full lifetime of the device. Especially since your mom uses it to order stuff, which usually includes some pretty security sensitive information. I think you…

Well, I haven't analysed the exact technical reason for why submitting the order failed. But I'm pretty certain that submitting a HTML form is a solved problem in web development.. Or at least it should be. I haven't tried submitting a form with an async fetch from a web worker that communicates with a redux store implemented in WebAssembly yet (or whatever that web app is doing..).

If the order site is just submitting an HTML form in the old way with credentials stored in a cookie (also the old way) that would probably be open to trivial CSRF attacks.

If it is somehow checking for support for SameSite, Secure, CSP or any of the other mechanisms that have been implemented in the last years then it might fail. Or they might be using mechanisms that work around the problem that those three are supposed to help since they are not available in older clients, but just don't have the resources to test the random android 4.12 version that you use. I think it should have a proper error message if that is the case.

But I feel like you are pointing the finger in the wrong direction. I try to build my apps without extraneous fads, but keeping a webapp secure (in other words keeping up to date with the latest protections) does not mean "submitting a form", and it does not mean letting any old client lacking the required protections through.

It also does not mean doing "WASM compiled redux reducers in ES6 module workers authenticating over JWT to send gRPC commands to a kafka broker talking with ingressrouting over anycast and a internal service mesh with mTLS3.9 auth using curve9999.9, token binding and Wireguard to secure internal communications over a VPC-less multi-cloud k8s cluster that uses Multi-Raft, Single-Paxos to have a single, distributed, disputably non-consistent CRDT-consensus algo over blockchain RS-232".

So, yeah, I'm not for fads over usability in tech. But I'm also not for supporting insecure clients just because the manufacturer of those clients doesn't give a shit.

Re: Cloudflare silently deleted my DNS records

#290

Post by nhoven »

Jerry2 wrote: post #44
whatthesmack wrote: post #2

This is frightening. I just started the process of moving all ~60 of my domains from Amazon Registrar + Google Cloud DNS to Cloudflare, and will definitely wait until somebody from Cloudflare chimes in here to clarify what's going on.

> moving all ~60 of my domains from Amazon Registrar + Google Cloud DNS to Cloudflare You're very brave considering that Cloudflare doesn't even have U2F yet Google and Amazon do.

U2F is under active development. My team is actually working on it as we speak
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