AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income • Hacker News Board

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#41

Post by lukeschlather » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:17 PM UTC

carlisle_ wrote: post #31

Aloha wrote: post #22

Perhaps the authors of the bill are unaware that the U in UBI means Universal. If your unemployment benefits are less that UBI, you should get the difference in UBI, similarly excluding Medicaid recipients seems well, plain stupid.

It doesn't exclude medicaid, that's a federal program. These are the programs it excludes: > Medi-Cal program, the County Medical Services Program, the CalFresh program, the CalWORKs program, or Unemployment Insurance I'm not entirely sure why, though.

https://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal

> Medi-Cal is California's Medicaid program.

Because the ACA basically allows states to opt-out of providing medicaid, Medicaid has separate agencies for every state.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#42

Post by gedy » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

rmah wrote: post #24

Can they not do basic math? There are around 30 mil adults in California. Even if provision 18992.1 (b) is 5 mil people, that's still 25 mil people. That's 25 mil * $12,000 = $300 bil a year. The ENTIRE California state budget for 2020 is only $220 bil. They would have to more than double the tax revenue for a state with already very high taxes. Now, assuming the most generous interpretation of their 10% VAT proposal…

It's mainly a try at introducing a VAT, populist UBI stuff is probably secondary goal

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#43

Post by aty268 » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

If you own real estate in California, I would sell while you still can.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#44

Post by kyledrake » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

If you pass this without passing radical reform of zoning and building millions more homes, it will be yet another wealth transfer mechanism from poor consumers to wealthy California landholders. Rents will eventually match the increase in income as way too much demand chases an incredible, inhumane, History Will Judge You shortage of supply.

Which, amazingly, is one of the reasons this could actually pass. California's property class seem to get everything they want, even if it's voting down small and inadequate reforms like SB-50 was (it was a start but not even remotely enough).

California should be thinking about absolutely nothing else that's big except fixing their housing crisis. It's so big at this point that it's actually causing most of the other major problems.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#45

Post by option » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

mech1234 wrote: post #32

rmah wrote: post #24

Can they not do basic math? There are around 30 mil adults in California. Even if provision 18992.1 (b) is 5 mil people, that's still 25 mil people. That's 25 mil * $12,000 = $300 bil a year. The ENTIRE California state budget for 2020 is only $220 bil. They would have to more than double the tax revenue for a state with already very high taxes. Now, assuming the most generous interpretation of their 10% VAT proposal…

This bill will not pass. Its introduction is primarily a signalling exercise and a populist rallying cry.

we should vote out those who introduced it. In CA it is very easy to vote by mail. Please do

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#46

Post by swamp40 » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #33

If I read it correctly it seems to apply to all residents over 18, present legally or not. Combining UBI with open borders / non enforcement of immigration policy is going to be interesting from a budget point of view.

Especially when the new census shows there are an additional 5 million illegals in CA that have never been counted anywhere before.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#47

Post by someonehere » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

We’re due for a recession here in California. I follow the real estate gurus and they’re a bit perplexed on why we aren’t in one yet.

The timing of UBI and an impending recession are a bad formula for the state and will definitely change the political landscape of California. ie likely to see some politicians voted out of office and flipping the majority.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#48

Post by Jtsummers » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

nerdjon wrote: post #23

trothamel wrote: post #3

It seems that the line at the bottom about the 10% VAT on many goods and services seems just as interesting as the UBI (especially when the UBI seems to exclude many of the poorest Californians). I wonder how they will administer the VAT without other states cooperating with them.

I am very confused about the math of this, unless California has a surplus of taxes coming in. Without even taking into account the existing tax rate in California, wouldn't this need an average of 10k of spending per person a month getting this to work out? Then again there are enough restrictions on this (seemingly largely the ones that would actually benefit the most from this) that it actually works out...

A VAT would apply to businesses as well as people. Considering the amount of manufacturing in CA, this would be quite significant.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#49

Post by throwaway17_17 » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

danhak wrote: post #38

exabrial wrote: post #36

Nothing that requires the labors of other is a "right". UBI funded by private equity is fine. UBI funded by taxes is theft and extortion.

Hmmm, how about my right to a fair and speedy trial? That requires the labor of others, doesn’t it?

That is a right exercises against the government. Specifically the Courts which are created by Federal and State statures. The labor in question is on behalf of the government.

Re: AB2712 – California Universal Basic Income

#50

Post by searine » Mon, Feb 24, 2020, 4:23 PM UTC

infecto wrote: post #39

rmah wrote: post #24

Can they not do basic math? There are around 30 mil adults in California. Even if provision 18992.1 (b) is 5 mil people, that's still 25 mil people. That's 25 mil * $12,000 = $300 bil a year. The ENTIRE California state budget for 2020 is only $220 bil. They would have to more than double the tax revenue for a state with already very high taxes. Now, assuming the most generous interpretation of their 10% VAT proposal…

Boy, I already pay some of the highest taxes in the country and now I get to pay more. For what? They cannot manage anything else properly in this state.

>For what?

Schools. Roads. Sewers. Water. Clean air. Power. Safety. Just to name a few.

Nothing important really.