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Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

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Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#81
post #35

There is no perfect system that protects buyers and sellers. Change the rules and buyers will be complaining. The reason it is skewed towards buyers is: 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living). 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more work as the…

> 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living).

Buyers also generally have to buy somewhere, especially for necessities. The difference is that finding a place to buy is easier than finding a place to sell.

> 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more work as they need to resell the item to gain currency, which is risky (both from exposing themselves to stolen item investigations as well as being a victim of fraud themselves as a seller).

You don't have to just resell to profit. Just buy stuff you want anyways then complain.

> 3) imagine if sellers could just ship rocks to buyers instead of cameras without consequence. Every scammer and his dog would be in on the gig without 5 seconds. (1) becomes even more bleak.

The current system works because there are many buyers and few sellers. Most people are honest. And everyone buys things. But most people don't sell things. Skewing in favor of the buyer makes it so the few sellers aren't overrun by fraudsters. If even 10% of the dishonest people in the world were actively selling stuff on Amazon, it would probably be a huge problem.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#82
post #62

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

Isn't this a form of escrow service? Those are sometimes used when buying very expensive items via auction/real world.

> Isn't this a form of escrow service?

Sort of, except the agent wouldn't be handling (receive and/or disburse) money. They just certify and record a part of the transaction (i.e. shipment).

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#83
post #68

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

At a Purolator (Canadian retailer) mailing centre near me, they have this system that weighs the box but also measures the dimensions. The whole rig is ceiling mounted (while the scale is on a counter). I suspect like this could also incorporate a camera that takes a photo of the inside contents.

probably x-rays and not photos

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#84
post #35

There is no perfect system that protects buyers and sellers. Change the rules and buyers will be complaining. The reason it is skewed towards buyers is: 1) who in there right mind would buy something online where there is no protection (sellers aren't the same as they have to sell somewhere to make a living). 2) most buyers are honest who just want their item. Profiting from fraud as a buyer is a lot more work as the…

> The general view is sellers need to take fraud into their overall operating expense budget, just like department stored do with shoplifting. How’s that work when selling a single item?

obviously not well, but a one-off sale is a relatively uncommon transaction, so it doesn't get optimized for.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#85

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

> Too over simplified??

Probably. These shipping services don't really have any expertise to accurately judge the quality of many of the items they ship. They just move boxes around.

Some rando at FexEx Office doesn't really know how to determine that your DSLR has the advertised shutter count, nor do they know how to verify the SMART status of those hard drives you shipped, nor would they be able to validate the authenticity of your designer handbag.

There are specialized consignors popping up online that do have the ability to do these things, though.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#86

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

You know, I'm surprised that those mailbox stores don't offer exactly this sort of service. Buyer and seller give a deposit to a postal store, the seller mails product to the store, the buyer inspects the product at the store and decides whether to keep it, and, if so, pays the balance to the store and walks out with the product, and presumably there could be a process for undoing it by returning the product to that…

You just described exactly what Stockx does with everything sold on their site. I think it’s good for everyone, because of the chance of getting fake items.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#87
post #50

If reading this story makes your blood boil, and you need some catharsis, there’s a story online that I can’t find right now about a guy who went to the address of the fraudster and beat him with a piece of rebar giving him a permanent limp.

Maybe that was an innocent person. Scammers are known to use other people's addresses, they know when the person is not at home and when the package arrives and just go loot it.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#88

Did you sell it as used? If you opened the package and touched the product it can no longer be sold as new. I have called out sellers on this crap before and gotten my money back. When I order new I expect a factory sealed box. (Also illegal in the US https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/20.1 ) So assuming you sold this as used, that sucks I feel for you. However if your one of those scumbags who sells used things…

Does Amazon not have a "New, open box" option?

see also: "used"

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#89
post #77

This is such a basic issue that I don't understand why USPS or some other shipper w/ bricks-n-mortar haven't stepped up to offer some sort of package shipping certification. If I was the seller it could work as simply as me bringing the item to a shipper who would take their own photos and weigh the items being packaged up as well as some check that the item is as being described to the recipient. In turn the shipper…

I sell quite a bit of vintage music gear on Reverb. I initially had some struggles with customers, but they seem to have mostly kept riff raff out. I think the fact that its still slightly a niche site keeps the volume down low enough to keep humans involved. As they were recently purchased by ETSY, Im wondering if this sort of service will start to drop off. Fingers crossed, Im selling a vintage Oberheim right now t…

I worked for Audiogon a long time ago and I always wanted them to start a shipping escrow service for this reason. If you do it for a niche you have access to expertise.

Re: Amazon let a fraudster keep my Sony A74 IV and refunded him

#90

Similar thing happened to me with PayPal, buyer got to keep the item, and got a refund (by doing a chargeback on their CC) and I got billed the amount + 15% of fees and punishment. I provided exhausting proof of delivery and that there was no contact or complaints from the buyer, but they didn't care. They said, since it's a chargeback, they HAVE to give them their money back. The buyer was a client of Commonwealth B…

Interestingly about chargeback, I've noticed the same. I tried to file a chargeback with my bank in France and got denied despite it being a valid claim and me providing all the documentation for it.

But, when I used my US credit card to file a chargeback it went through fine and there was no issue. I wonder if some countries are more lax with charge backs?

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