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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#581

Post by notyourday »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

> But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from joining a union.

Most of athletes aren't high paid. You don't hear about them and the high-paid athletes via players unions do everything possible to prevent newcomers from joining their ranks -- that's why there are deadlines when the teams must bring the number of people on a team down to a certain number.

Most of SAG/AFTRA members only dream of a principal role again after using the exceptions while collecting tips slinging drinks in bars or carrying plates in restaurants.

If you are making over 100-250k while working in tech unions will push your compensation down. The companies won't be negotiating with you about your special deal when the union shows up in your shop.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#582

Post by xur17 »

linuxftw wrote: post #410
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

The number 1 reason to form a union in the tech world is so a company can't pull a Disney. Replace all your full time workers with imported 'contractors' and force you to train them. Getting rid of the 'contractor' loop hole in tech will be better for everyone.

> The number 1 reason to form a union in the tech world is so a company can't pull a Disney. Replace all your full time workers with imported 'contractors' and force you to train them.

How do they force you to train your replacement? There are plenty of jobs in tech right now, you could (and should) just walk out the door if something like that occurs.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#583

Post by username90 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #559
refurb wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a union is going to fix the interview process?

Why couldn't it be a potential tool towards addressing this problem? Will the status quo of angry blog articles posted to HN and Blind do any better?

Unions tend to put up more barriers to entry, not remove them.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#584

Post by ChuckMcM »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Tech workers could have effectively used the leverage associated with unionization since at least 1984 during the semiconductor recession.

Considering that the revenue per employee number is at an all time high, and the amount of money the company spends on the employee's working environment[1] is at record lows pretty much explains why this is going to be effective now when it wasn't before.

There is also the issue of the "big" tech companies piling up cash rather than compensating their employees. So giving a voice to that choice could be interesting as well.

[1] Most people I've had the discussion with will argue that "free food" and "bus service" is way more than employees in the 90's got. However on a per-employee basis, the typical professional employee (engineer) had 150 square feet of office space that was unshared, in an open plan office that is typically less than 18 square feet and can be a small as 9 square feet. 100 square feet in a class A office building is $1000/month for $10/sq ft. Food and bus service per employee totals to much less than that. The key is that with a union, the employee has a voice in whether they get compensated in office space or in free snacks.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#585

Post by djsumdog »

save_ferris wrote: post #492
carapace wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Why do tech workers need a union? I don't know if a union is the answer, but tech workers aren't immune to management hi-jinks: "Apple and Google's wage-fixing cartel involved dozens more companies, over one million employees" https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

It’s not just wage-fixing, tech companies wield an absurd amount of power in other aspects of people’s lives. I was once let go due for “performance” reasons that involved major company politics behind the scenes. I’d just gotten my annual review from my boss emailed to my work email about a week before my termination, which showed stellar performance across the board. When I looked into filing for unemployment, I di…

You should be able to subpoena those e-mails and other documents. Depending on your municipality, there is usually a court/tribunal process just for unemployment claims, or you could get an employment lawyer. It is going to eat up some of that unemployment, but it's worth it to not let a company get away with that kind of shit.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#586

Post by jcampbell1 »

elicash wrote: post #566
jcampbell1 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions have a terrible reputation when it comes to helping people in the minority. They have elections and tyranny of the majority is the natural outcome. Unions and Labor parties have a nasty history of racism. About 15 years ago I was present when a UAW rep called a gay salaried coworker the f-word at 150 decibels and the company could do nothing. He is now the plant union chairman. I am sure this union will start…

Basically every institution in the U.S. has racism in its history. But the reason the civil rights movement has been so aligned with the labor movement historically is because racial and economic progress are linked. That's one reason why there's more pay equity in union jobs. Worth noting that Dr. King was assassinated, he was in the city because he was striking with sanitation workers. https://www.theroot.com/dr-ki…

I am clearly biased based on my experience, and agree with MLK that you can’t make progress if you don’t have a voice. Maybe if the union is setup with parliamentary style representation it would avoid some of the nasty problems I have seen first hand.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#587

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

duxup wrote: post #556
elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

Athletic unions are generally there because the top leagues are monolithic, there aren't other places to go with similar compensation. It's sort of a different playing field.

Okay, so you have 2 options to make dollar money as an engineer: Google & Facebook.

Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon pay well, but 10-20% less for the same level. There's a handful of others that will pay about 20-40% less. The average startup is paying 40-70% less.

And, sure, you'll always run into some startup that's paying one or two engineers a million dollars.

Stephon Marbury made more money when he left the NBA to play in China. Doesn't mean the average player can or does.

Anyone making league average in the NBA could play in Europe or China for 40-70% less.

Not sure what the difference is...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#588

Post by Apocryphon »

username90 wrote: post #583
Apocryphon wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't it be a potential tool towards addressing this problem? Will the status quo of angry blog articles posted to HN and Blind do any better?

Unions tend to put up more barriers to entry, not remove them.

This is an industry founded upon the principles of innovation and invention, is it not? Perhaps tech can invent a union that can overcome issues found in the unions of the past.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#589

Post by lasky »

rpiguy wrote: post #378

The most fascinating thing to me about tech worker unionization is that it is less about working conditions and more about input on moral decisions made by company management. At Kickstarter the moral divide started with the Punch a Nazi incident. You see this at other technology companies as well, as employees agonize over free speech, what to censor, whether or not to work for China, whether or not to deploy survei…

agree, this is by far the most interesting part of all this. it’s not about “my working conditions” but about whether or not my employer “agrees with my views.”

I think this is partly because people understand the power and influence their organizations have in the world.

When many migrant restaurant workers are working 80 hour weeks or don’t keep their tips, it makes it easier to see the radical privilege of tech workers, and their unawareness.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#590

Post by throwGuardian »

Frondo wrote: post #528
save_ferris wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just wage-fixing, tech companies wield an absurd amount of power in other aspects of people’s lives. I was once let go due for “performance” reasons that involved major company politics behind the scenes. I’d just gotten my annual review from my boss emailed to my work email about a week before my termination, which showed stellar performance across the board. When I looked into filing for unemployment, I di…

Leave money negotiations off the table, and you could have a union establish a single consistent process for firing practices that'd protect someone like James Damore from being arbitrarily fired. I don't agree with what Damore had to say, but that shouldn't matter! I would absolutely support a union-backed fair process for evaluating his or anyone's continued employment, whatever controversial things they write abou…

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