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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#401

Post by dv_dt »

pathseeker wrote: post #358
dv_dt wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Workers assume risk taking on an opportunity cost with their employers, and the very wealthy often mitigate their risk by pushing it onto the government.

>and the very wealthy often mitigate their risk by pushing it onto the government. No they don't. Not even in the wall-street bailouts did shareholders get money from the government.

Banks were bailed out by quantitative easing to the tune of $4+T, so at the very least, one can draw a direct line from that government bailout from banks to bank stock shareholders.

Just to review: QE bought risky Mortgage backed securities off of banks and finance companies completely absolving them of carrying the negative effects of their bad investments...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#402

Post by azinman2 »

pathseeker wrote: post #328
azinman2 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s all pros and cons. This is very much one of the big negatives of unions. That said, they also are one of the bigger drivers of worker pay increasing over time. In an era of massive income inequality, it’s a loss. I wish there was a way to get best of both worlds. —- I’ve always felt ESD stuff is way overhyped. I’ve handled a ton of electronics over decades without any ESD protection, and never had an issue. I ju…

> That said, they also are one of the bigger drivers of worker pay increasing over time. Not in the tech industry. Salaries in software have outpaced any union environment just through competition for labor and a booming economy rewarding technology.

It’s a relatively nascent industry, and this wealth is not equally distributed. We don’t know what it’ll look like in ten, twenty years. You cannot assume the world will continue to be as is.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#403

Post by homonculus1 »

Goronmon wrote: post #220
_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. What's wrong with "mediocre" employees staying employed?

Everything is a trade-off between priorities. You can optimize for anything, but not everything.

There's nothing "wrong" with stable employment for unproductive people, but when you optimize for that as a goal, then you're paying for it with things like decreased productivity and immense frustration for the creative people who actually want to solve problems. Detaching employment from productivity reduces it to ritual, which is incredibly demotivating for the good workers who see through the farce. They can't even go off on their own to volunteer their skills for the common good, because they still rely on employment--but their hands are tied within that sphere due to a fundamental distortion of its meaning.

The current system was designed at the beginning of the Industrial Revolution for factory labor. Instead of pretending that we can force it to be relevant into the future, we need to accept that productivity is moving into the realm of cognitive work. Part of this means educating people from the ground up to use information tools and reason abstractly, but we also have to admit that not everybody is going to have the innate ability to contribute in the future, and handle that in a way that doesn't hamstring the people who can.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#404

Post by Jweb_Guru »

notyourday wrote: post #325
Jweb_Guru wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, so you're saying that Detroit's auto industry went away because they unionized? The thing they did many decades before that?

SV has the same kind of attitude towards competition Detroit had in 20th century.

I agree with you, but that has zero bearing on whether unionizing is a good idea. If anything it makes it more urgent.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#405

Post by LarryDarrell »

bitwize wrote: post #319
ditonal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people on HN constantly claim that companies are right to consider “a false negative is better than a false positive”, act like insane interview gauntlets are normal and desired, AND claim that people can easily change jobs? It’s not true. I live in the SF Bay Area, have worked as a SWE for 10+ years including at top companies like Google, and changing jobs is NOT easy and I’m sick of the implication it is. Th…

> Why do people on HN constantly claim that companies are right to consider “a false negative is better than a false positive”, act like insane interview gauntlets are normal and desired, AND claim that people can easily change jobs? If you were fired today you could walk into a new job by end of week, if you were any good. At least that's what Hackernews keeps telling me.

Everyone on HN is a Top Performer who is consonantly held back by the mediocrity that surrounds them.

Also, the hiring process is broken. Also, older workers have a hard time finding work. Also, I have work 60 hour weeks. Also, I have to be on call all the time even though they said it would only be one weekend a month. Also, it turns out the options I was given were worthless. Also, open floor plans are detrimental to my health.

Techworkers have absolutely 0 issues that could be solved by any organizing!

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#406

Post by standardUser »

echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

"The only downside I can think of is ageism"

"Yes, we're underpaid for the value we provide"

Seems like you came up with another downside in pretty short order. I believe you can come up with even more if you peruse the comments here.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#407

Post by carapace »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

> 1. Why do tech workers need a union?

I don't know if a union is the answer, but tech workers aren't immune to management hi-jinks:

"Apple and Google's wage-fixing cartel involved dozens more companies, over one million employees"

https://pando.com/2014/03/22/revealed-apple-and-googles-wage...

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#408

Post by rpiguy »

mason55 wrote: post #99
_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

Unions operate financially like churches. They depend on the dues (tithes) paid by their membership. The more members you have, the more influence and power you have.

This incentivizes unions to never voluntarily reduce their numbers. The more mediocre the employees, the more protection they need from the union, and thus the more power the union has over the employee population.

The ideal union employee to a union boss, based on how unions are funded and run in the US, is a minimally competent drone that regularly pays dues.

Unions also consistently advocate credentialism over performance. If an employer wants to improve performance the union will fight any outcome based benchmarks, and will instead push for everyone to be educated and certified. In truth it would be best for the business to do both, educate and measure outcomes. What is more important, that every teacher in the US have a masters degree, or that every teacher be good at teaching. The union will always advocate for the former.

I like unions, particularly in the private sector. I wish they operated differently and were more pro-active in cultivating skill (like old school guilds) and less about body count.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#409

Post by jkaplowitz »

metalliqaz wrote: post #116
nimbius wrote: post #21

Speaking as an IAM union member, congratulations! now comes the hard part. You're probably (still) going to hear a lot of FUD from your employer but dont worry, things really do only get better from here. Once you get a union youll get more quarterly insight into your companies profits, losses, and a MUCH better picture of what the company intends to do in the next six to twelve months. Youll also get a direct say in…

> election period didn't they just complete the election?

Yes, and successfully.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#410

Post by linuxftw »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

The number 1 reason to form a union in the tech world is so a company can't pull a Disney. Replace all your full time workers with imported 'contractors' and force you to train them.

Getting rid of the 'contractor' loop hole in tech will be better for everyone.

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