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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#411

Post by mdonahoe »

elicash wrote: post #379

1. Why do tech workers need a union? If you want to improve your workplace, you have additional leverage to fight for changes if you're in a union. There's often very little you can do alone. This might be things like pay, or it might be something else entirely. 2. But aren't tech workers elite coddled rich kids who are lucky to make what they receive? I mean, no. But even if so, high pay doesn't stop athletes from j…

"Athletes unionize" is one of the better arguments I've heard for why devs should.

I'm curious to learn more about the origins of the players' union.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#412

Post by carapace »

wpietri wrote: post #400
zpallin wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally speaking for well run, ethical companies, whose management actively try to do the right thing, unions add unnecessary redundancy and bureaucracy. The only type of "well run, ethical companies" where unions are redundant are worker-owned cooperatives . Otherwise, an employer, regardless of how ethical they are, can never replicate the most critical aspect of unions: collective bargaining rights . Sure, an…

That's becoming my take as well. I think the tech industry was, at least for a while, an exception here. Developers were so hard to get and retain that the power of individual workers did a lot to keep things sane. But I think that power is, for a variety of reasons, waning. If we want to keep our unusually good working conditions, and especially if we want to make sure our colleagues enjoy them as well, then I think…

Here's an interesting (IMO) one:

https://www.windings.com/about-us/

> For more than 50 years, Windings has provided engineered electromagnetic solutions for critical applications in Aerospace, Defense, Automotive, Medical, Oil & Gas and general Factory Automation. As a full-service provider, Windings is a leader in the design, test, manufacture and support of custom electric motors, generators and related components including rotors, stators, lamination stacks and insulation systems.

> Windings business structure was converted to an Employee Stock Ownership Plan (ESOP) in 1998 and we have been 100% employee owned since 2008. Being 100% employee owned means that every one of our 100+ employees, and only our employees, is either an owner or is on the path to becoming an owner.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#413

Post by WarChortle »

chrisco255 wrote: post #241
advisedwang wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leverage. Without a union, you can ask management for stuff, but they can just say no. Your only recourse then is to quit, which wouldn't change anything when it's just one person. With a union, a work stoppage is a possibility. Suddenly management have a reason to come to the negotiation table and make concessions.

First of all "asking for stuff" implies a negotiation between two parties. A negotiation implies that either party can walk away from a deal. You're implying management shouldn't be able to say no. Management is not necessarily out to get employees and excessive compensation or regulation around hiring and firing leads to either insolvency or stagnation. It's a balancing act. A union can be just as exploitative as a…

A negotiation is also done in good faith with both parties willing to listen and discuss options. An individual almost never has the advantage when negotiating with a company.

For 99% of employees out their quitting isn't the threat you make it seem to be. As easy you make it sound to get a new job, its that easy for them to replace you. Then that new employee gets to deal with the same shit you left over. It never gets fixed.

Leaving and going somewhere new doesn't solve anything. for most people job hunting is just looking at piles of shit and finding which one stinks less.

Insurance at my current job is not great. I can't go to my boss and say I want better health insurance he would laugh me out of his office, but even if he could, why would he not just give me the better insurance from the start? If a Union went to management and said we demand better health care that carries weight. That would get something done.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#414

Post by mrlala »

umvi wrote: post #105
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just formed a company back in December. Super easy to set up an LLC, C or S Corp. But I wanted it to be a worker co-op like Mondragon. And there's no real guidance or help. Democracy is cool, until we look at companies. Then it's dictatorships as the norm. And trying to do it right from the ground up is high impossible. As a obligatory comment: are there any other in the HN-sphere that focuses on worker cooperative…

> Democracy is cool, until we look at companies. Then it's dictatorships as the norm. Democracy is a horribly inefficient system of government. Its only redeeming quality is that it seems effective at (so far) deterring tyranny and abuse of power. However, like I said, it's horribly inefficient. Changes that are easy to make under a dictatorship can be extremely hard to make under a democracy. Not exactly a quality y…

>Its only redeeming quality is that it seems effective at (so far) deterring tyranny and abuse of power.

=/

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#415

Post by kerkeslager »

hello_moto wrote: post #299
dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

> Offer highly competitive salaries Every time I see this statement, I can't help it but wonder why people don't put some estimate what constitutes "highly competitive". FAANG just shoot everybody expectation to the roof and non-FAANG is having hard time to compete in salary (sure, there are some exception but they are exceptions).

From the workers' perspective, why should we care exactly? That sounds like a you problem.

If you aren't able to pay your workers, I'm not sure why you think you shouldn't just go out of business. People aren't obligated to work for substandard wages so you can get rich.

I certainly think that there are a lot of ways in which the playing field needs to be evened between small and big companies, so that the playing field is fairer to entrepreneurs and small business owners. But taking it out on workers isn't the answer.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#416

Post by HeroOfAges »

echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

Why do you assume software developers are leading the push to unionize? All we know is that Kickstarter employees have voted to unionize. The majority of Kickstarter employees don't write software. My cynical take is the non-dev employees feel they're not getting what they deserve in the form of let's say salary. Perhaps they would like compensation closer to or on par with the software developers at their company.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#417

Post by [deleted] »

HeroOfAges wrote: post #356
lexs wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kickstarters product is not software though, it's a platform, so support and community management probably does play a fairly substantial role.

Hmm... If I worked as customer support at Tesla, I would not expect to be compensated, or frankly valued the same as say an electrical engineer at Tesla. And really, isn't community management just another word for customer support?

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#418

Post by ksr_throwaway »

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

> In tech, we can generally assume reasonable working conditions and pay, so Kickstarter unionizing screams “toxic management” for me, personally.

I can confirm that "toxic management" is the only way to describe the situation when this union drive began.

Source: I work at Kickstarter

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#419

Post by proc0 »

zpallin wrote: post #376
calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

> Generally speaking for well run, ethical companies, whose management actively try to do the right thing, unions add unnecessary redundancy and bureaucracy. The only type of "well run, ethical companies" where unions are redundant are worker-owned cooperatives . Otherwise, an employer, regardless of how ethical they are, can never replicate the most critical aspect of unions: collective bargaining rights . Sure, an…

Bargaining rights don't come for free. At the end of the day, unless you are the owner of the company or union leaders, you are basically serving two masters.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#420

Post by ancarda »

Pfhreak wrote: post #14

Congrats to the Kickstarter folks. Here's hoping this is the turn towards increased workers rights in the tech sector. Yes, this sector tends to pay fairly well, but that doesn't mean there aren't other areas to improve. From IP restrictions to overtime, oncall to transparency in promotions, there are countless workplace conditions I hear about needing to improve constantly.

transparency in promotions?
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