Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

vice.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 1001 posts

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#321

Post by Barrin92 »

dmix wrote: post #310
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible that some organizations have a high concentration of folks who have a particular viewpoint on unions, regardless of whether they're being treated poorly or not. For example, Vox's newsroom unionized, even though I would suppose that they are likely treated better than most journalists -- at least to the extent the business' economics allow. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with Kickstart…

I get the impression a lot of tech companies aren't doing it out of particular absolute need for such a strong a hammer, but because they can and it suits their ideology for legitimately bad stuff they see happening in other industries. It always made 100x more sense to me on some factory floor in the early 20th century than it does in a tech startup like environment in 2020, plus some labour jobs in between. I can j…

>It always made 100x more sense to me on some factory floor in the early 20th century than it does in a tech startup like environment in 2020.

Why does that make more sense? The point of unionization is collective bargaining. Collective bargaining is effective whether you have 30 rockstar ninja developers or blue collar workers on a factory floor.

In either case the collective action helps amplifying the workforce's ability to negotitiate. It's the developers who create the company's value. It's time they see that they actually have the power to determine how their companies are run.

Google's employees frequently protest when their management decides to engage in unethical practise like say, developing censoring software for the Chinese market. Instead of throwing a tantrum and leaving the building and holding a protest they could imply unionize and leverage their position.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#323

Post by [deleted] »

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#324

Post by pathseeker »

zipwitch wrote: post #172
nradov wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine worked as a developer at defense contractor with mostly union employees. One time they moved him to a different cubicle. Due to union work rules he literally had to wait two days for a union electrician to come by and plug his desktop computer into the wall socket. Just ridiculous.

Was that "union rules" or "the way the company had agreed to comply with their agreement with the union"? Because 'work to rule' can be a double-edged sword, and in my experience companies just love to blame their own chosen behavior on the union. "We have to fire you if you're late five times this quarter, because the union" really means "after we frequently and arbitrarily abused employees under the excuse of 'atte…

That's still "union rules". If the union chose to be pedantic and insisted upon these rules in negotiation, then it's really the union's fault.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#325

Post by notyourday »

Jweb_Guru wrote: post #227
notyourday wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what Detroit thought.

Sorry, so you're saying that Detroit's auto industry went away because they unionized? The thing they did many decades before that?

SV has the same kind of attitude towards competition Detroit had in 20th century.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#326

Post by aty268 »

mrlala wrote: post #315
aty268 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would it not be? If I don't like my job, I get another one. It's easier to do this as a software engineer than almost anything else.

>If I don't like my job, I get another one. Looks like someone doesn't own a home or have a family. Or if you do, perhaps you have adequate savings where that's maybe not a big deal. Or maybe your spouse makes good money also to support for a while. But most people are not lucky enough to be in that situation.

I do not, so it's possible i'm misunderstanding something.

If I live in New York, as Kickstarter is located, what is so difficult about changing jobs if I have a family? Same thing with other tech hubs, you don't need to physically move homes in order to change jobs. What is so hard about it?

Even if you have to move, my family moved 10 or so times in a few years when I was in grade school for new jobs, never seemed to be a huge issue.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#327

Post by lexs »

HeroOfAges wrote: post #307
spa3thyb wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you on the theory, up until your last statements - the vote to unionize was 46 to 37; 55% in favor with no breakdown in the roles means we can't be sure the dissenting voice wasn't the development staff. It could be the support and community management roles (or any other 'soft skill' role which is less scalable and no less valuable but perceived as more easily replaced) carried the vote.

"...support and community management roles..." are less scalable? Does this mean companies are finding it more difficult to fill community management roles than developer roles? Also, what do you mean by "no less valuable"? I don't think you can have a company who's product is software without developers. You do not, however need community managers. You make an interesting point: I do wonder if those in "soft skill"…

Kickstarters product is not software though, it's a platform, so support and community management probably does play a fairly substantial role.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#328

Post by pathseeker »

azinman2 wrote: post #118
_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

It’s all pros and cons. This is very much one of the big negatives of unions. That said, they also are one of the bigger drivers of worker pay increasing over time. In an era of massive income inequality, it’s a loss. I wish there was a way to get best of both worlds. —- I’ve always felt ESD stuff is way overhyped. I’ve handled a ton of electronics over decades without any ESD protection, and never had an issue. I ju…

> That said, they also are one of the bigger drivers of worker pay increasing over time.

Not in the tech industry. Salaries in software have outpaced any union environment just through competition for labor and a booming economy rewarding technology.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#329

Post by LarryDarrell »

kirstenbirgit wrote: post #15

What's the benefit of being in a union for highly specialized tech workers that are very in demand?

Assuming this is true, now is the time to form a union. Not when they are no longer in high demand.

There's a lot of hubris in the tech field that high salaries and a plethora of available jobs is the norm and will forever be that way.

I anticipate a lot of "Why Tech Needs A Union" posts on HN during the next recession or when the current crop of 25-35 year olds reach their late 40's and all of a sudden have trouble finding stable work.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#330

Post by naiveprogrammer »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #280
calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

It's also possible that some organizations have a high concentration of folks who have a particular viewpoint on unions, regardless of whether they're being treated poorly or not. For example, Vox's newsroom unionized, even though I would suppose that they are likely treated better than most journalists -- at least to the extent the business' economics allow. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case with Kickstart…

> Vox's newsroom unionized, even though I would suppose that they are likely treated better than most journalists -- at least to the extent the business' economics allow.

Better treatment also involves better pay. Being nice to your employee is not enough. Vox may treat employees nicely, but you'd be surprised how low they pay to their occasional writers who are scattered in a bunch of niche vehicles.

Post reply on HN