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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#281

Post by [deleted] »

Goronmon wrote: post #220
_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. What's wrong with "mediocre" employees staying employed?

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#282

Post by pathseeker »

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

>Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without

From the company perspective maybe, but I've not seen a union in the US that successfully rewards high performing employees over mediocre lifers. Overachievers end up leaving and you're left with no innovation. Do you have any examples of unions that have solved this problem?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#284

Post by helen___keller »

jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

Perhaps to look at it the other way, those with the tools/mindset to haggle and negotiate and prepare for a top career will end up at a place that offers top benefits and top salaries.

Which means the places that don't offer top benefits, top salaries, or places that otherwise mistreat their workers, will, almost by definition, retain mostly a workforce of employees who are either not top talent or are bad at negotiation (or some variation of this - e.g. the video game industry has some great programmers who work with awful treatment & pay for one reason or another).

If you're in this poorly treated group, unionization looks great. If most of your workforce is in this group, then most of your workforce will be eyeballing unionization.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#285

Post by ilikehurdles »

nosefrog wrote: post #94
notkaiho wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You worked in a union shop once. Not necessarily a representative unionised workplace, just the one you were in. Yet 'in your experience' they are not optimal.

Why don’t you contribute to the conversation by talking about your own experience with unions?

OK.

My wife's medical workers union won her 5 weeks of vacation, free health insurance, someone advocating for reasonable hours who she could report abuses to without fear of repercussion, healthy food in the cafeteria, oh and she got a stipend to buy whatever computing devices she wanted. No one locked away her monitor cable or prevented her from working for a week so they could plug in a power strip. No armed union rep came to her door to force her to sign the paperwork or hand over the fees. Her union fees were like a couple hundred bucks a year or something, but her pay in that position was also higher than it would have been at any other hospital in the region.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#286

Post by celdon25 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #148
zchrykng wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only 46 employees voted for the union, 37 against.

That's kinda my point. A significant percentage of employees were against unionization, so it seems rather odd to treat "Kickerstarter Employees" as a monolithic group who "won" the election. It'd be like announcing the results of a political election with the headline: "U.S. Voters Win Historic Presidential Election."

It seems odd to imply that the mainstream media is the gold standard on accurate reporting of national political news.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#287

Post by castlecrasher2 »

lyrr wrote: post #262
jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

I don't know how you can fail to see how an organised and unified workforce will always benefit all workers in a firm. Pitting 'top performers' against the rest, scaremongering about 'lazy workers' etc. just divides the workforce and allows management/owners to exploit/underpay workers as a whole. The company would not be able to function/make as good a profit as it does without ALL workers contributing. If a worker…

>I don't know how you can fail to see how an organised and unified workforce will always benefit all workers in a firm.

I don't know why you assume that unions = organized and unified workforce. It's like claiming that HOAs = organized and unified neighborhood.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#288

Post by rukittenme »

wanderingjew wrote: post #198
nosefrog wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don’t you contribute to the conversation by talking about your own experience with unions?

While not the grandparent post, I can add some of my own experiences with unions: Once, when workers in Chicago supported a general strike in support of an eight-hour workday, police shot and killed a number of workers. [1]. Someone threw dynamite into a crowd. A lot of people died, but we got that eight hour workday. Another time, workers protested for higher wages, but the company owners hired private security and…

I mean this as politely as it can be meant. And, I'm not contributing this point to make a jab at you or your political ideology. I think you need to seek professional medical help. You're contributing "personal experiences" from 150 years ago. You're hand-waving domestic terrorism because it achieved a political end you agree with. You're accusing people of being "traitors" (a capital offense) for acknowledging the negative aspects of the union they were a member of.

At some point, you have spiraled out of control. You need to seek help. This is not a normal way to communicate with people.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#289

Post by notJim »

echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

As others say, one reason is that busts happen. I was reading the union contract for one of the local government unions (like you do…) the other day, and noticed they had a lot of provisions related to lay-offs. How much severance people get, how it's calculated, how it's decided who gets laid off, etc. This kind of thing would be very valuable if there's ever a tech bust.

The other thing is that not everyone experiences the supposed benefits of these careers. I talk to a lot of people who are exploited in the tech industry with long hours and salaries that aren't really that high for the high CoL we deal with. Talk to bootcamp graduates about their job experiences some time. PoC and women also report rampant discrimination—lower salaries for the same work, sexism, organizations providing cover and golden parachutes for harassers.

Finally, think of all the issues that we gripe about here on HN:

- Open office plans

- Horrible and overly-demanding hiring processes

- Lack of transparency or consistency around promotion processes and salaries

Fixing these types of issues are bread and butter for unions.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#290

Post by wellthisisgreat »

lexs wrote: post #239
wellthisisgreat wrote: post #165

Is there a list of demands and laws anywhere they want to impose? There is only this: https://kickstarterunited.org/ Not a word about the standards of performance or expectations from employees who would want to be part of union. A short list of some fairly handwavy statements and a one-page website "join-join-join". Also what kind of positions do people who pushed this occupied? How many engineers have signed this?…

Literally taken from your link. > Is there a list of demands and laws anywhere they want to impose? "02) What are the workplace improvements Kickstarter United is seeking?" > Not a word about the standards of performance or expectations from employees who would want to be part of union. "Kickstarter United will be made up of all employees in the bargaining unit."

> "Kickstarter United will be made up of all employees in the bargaining unit."

So no standards of training etc. for the workers? Just you know, show up for the work, punch in and punch out?

Also there is no specific requirement in the list. The only one that is not a blanket statement and has actually some case in it is "when disciplinary action is taken"

the rest is just a list of what KS is already doing and has been doing better than many companies.

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