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Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#291

Post by pathseeker »

lyrr wrote: post #262
jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

I don't know how you can fail to see how an organised and unified workforce will always benefit all workers in a firm. Pitting 'top performers' against the rest, scaremongering about 'lazy workers' etc. just divides the workforce and allows management/owners to exploit/underpay workers as a whole. The company would not be able to function/make as good a profit as it does without ALL workers contributing. If a worker…

>I don't know how you can fail to see how an organised and unified workforce will always benefit all workers in a firm.

Because historically it hasn't in the US. Unions end up implementing a seniority-based compensation/benefits scheme and there is nothing given to employees who outperform everyone else. This even fosters an environment where top performers are discouraged by their peers for "making everyone else look bad".

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#292

Post by wbronitsky »

qzx_pierri wrote: post #144
ditonal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people on HN constantly claim that companies are right to consider “a false negative is better than a false positive”, act like insane interview gauntlets are normal and desired, AND claim that people can easily change jobs? It’s not true. I live in the SF Bay Area, have worked as a SWE for 10+ years including at top companies like Google, and changing jobs is NOT easy and I’m sick of the implication it is. Th…

You sound spoiled, but go off

I'm always amazed that when people ask for dignity, respect and the ability to have agency in their own life, other people feel the need to put those people down, call them "spoiled" and assert that life is just fine for everyone, thank you.

What I usually can't figure out is "why". Do you own a company? Are you part of management? Do you think that life should stay as it is and not get better for everyone?

Genuinely curious.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#294

Post by [deleted] »

crmrc114 wrote: post #208
ditonal wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people on HN constantly claim that companies are right to consider “a false negative is better than a false positive”, act like insane interview gauntlets are normal and desired, AND claim that people can easily change jobs? It’s not true. I live in the SF Bay Area, have worked as a SWE for 10+ years including at top companies like Google, and changing jobs is NOT easy and I’m sick of the implication it is. Th…

Having family who worked with the UAW as well is IBEW I can tell you that Trade Unions in general are much better at 'holding a standard' and truly keeping their trade-craft respectable. However the UAW, the most worthless crap joke of a union that makes other unions look bad. Basically just protects people who show up to work drunk or drive forklifts into walls. Forces companies to do insane things to fire people wh…

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#295

Post by fzeroracer »

zip1234 wrote: post #190
mason55 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions, in my experience, exist to help keep mediocre, unmotivated employees employed. One has no incentive to excel, as promotions are based on years "served", much like prison. There is nothing inherent in unions that make them operate like that.

I had a uncle that was a bricklayer and moved somewhere that bricklayers were in demand so that he could get paid more. He was not a union member. When the union found out he was doing the same work for slightly less, they sent some people over to threaten his life if he didn't join union or leave. He left.

I had a father that worked as a fisherman for a small company which was not union. He ended up dying because the owners didn't properly inspect the boat and it capsized because of a fatal flaw in the design, killing everyone on board.

Using your same argument, we should abolish all corporations, correct? Since a poorly ran corporation can quite literally kill people due to negligence.

I find it honestly absurd that people attribute all of these negative qualities to unions and yet are not willing to do the exact same thing to the same corporate behavior which has zero checks or balances.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#296

Post by 49para »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #232
sonofhans wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you're being downvoted because your statement is so obviously wrong. Democracies have consistently made horrifying decisions. Take a read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

As have monarchies and dictatorships. So where does that leave us? The conclusions that all forms of government make horrifying decisions?

Democracy is the worst form of government ...

Except for all others.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#297

Post by anarchodev »

metalliqaz wrote: post #265
calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

The (original) article only mentioned one grievance, that Kickstarter removed a "punch nazis" project and the employees revolted. Honestly it sounds like they had it pretty good.

[flagged]

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#298

Post by majormajor »

karatestomp wrote: post #121
echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

Well, for one thing, the good times won't last forever. Now's the time to prepare for the bad—it's much harder to organize when you're weak. For another, despite our compensation we're still much weaker at the bargaining table, individually, than our employers. See how casually so many of them reject applicants just to make sure "false positives" don't get through the hiring pipeline. I'm not saying they shouldn't do…

> For another, despite our compensation we're still much weaker at the bargaining table, individually, than our employers. See how casually so many of them reject applicants just to make sure "false positives" don't get through the hiring pipeline. I'm not saying they shouldn't do that—it's not my point—but it's definitely a sign of who's setting the terms of these interactions, and where the power is. And it'd be incredibly unusual if that weren't the case, as the overwhelming norm is for employers to have a huge advantage in labor negotiations versus individual workers, even if circumstances are currently such that those workers are paid a lot of money.

At the handful of places I've been, those "reject heavily" decisions are driven by engineering, not by HR or CEO.

HR often gets upset about the low offer rate, since it's not all that much fun for a recruiter to see so many people they bring in get rejected, or for a CEO to see "we need more people" as a continuing excuse for why stuff isn't getting done but also see people constantly rejected by the engineering managers.

Compensation decisions are a different beast, of course, and there a union could be much more helpful, but I would worry some about it introducing more of a "just throw more people at it" mythical-man-month thing.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#299

Post by hello_moto »

dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

> Offer highly competitive salaries

Every time I see this statement, I can't help it but wonder why people don't put some estimate what constitutes "highly competitive".

FAANG just shoot everybody expectation to the roof and non-FAANG is having hard time to compete in salary (sure, there are some exception but they are exceptions).

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#300

Post by wbronitsky »

aty268 wrote: post #272
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Countless reasons why. Low job supply in your area and inability to move due to family and other responsibilities tying you down or too busy taking care of your kids to have time to interview and study leetcode or too little time spent on a gig getting you labeled as a job hopper or as a problematic employee by other companies if you don't have enough experience backing you up. I feel you have no idea how complex peo…

Then that was the employees fault. They took the risk of moving to the middle of nowhere, (which for Kickstarter happens to be New York?), and are getting paid a bit less than industry average because of it. Is that a call to unionize? Absolutely not.

It seems like this would be solved by you not going to work for Kickstarter.

Maybe people other than you have problems you cannot see or understand.

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