Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except this particular development is in Florida, where you can't go under ground, and hurricane building codes make building up more complicated and expensive. As a Florida resident, I would love to see more parking garages, so parking takes up less ground surface area.
The conclusion of the article is that there needs to be less parking altogether, not just fewer surface parking lots. Livable places prioritize people, not cars.
The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
91–100 of 209 posts
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#92I wish the author would hit the non-walkability a bit harder. To get from one section to another, cross a street. To get from one side to another, you have to cross several streets. There is one area that did the same thing where I live (The Greene Town Center). I cannot simply think of why I would want to live there, and I was their target demographic! I really can't walk around inside of The Greene without having t…
A couple of years later, after having moved to Philadelphia, there was something I wanted to grab at a store in Main Street at Exton. There's a regional rail station a half mile from the shopping center, so I hopped a train. The absurd thing about this particular arrangement, which otherwise sounds like a great way to connect nearby markets, is that there is no sidewalk between the train station and the shopping center. The station sits where a major local road meets a major highway, so one way or another, you're crossing six lanes of traffic to get past the local road, and you have to cross two major highway four-lane on/off ramps as you go under the highway overpass, walking along a beaten grass path with only a curb between you and the traffic.
Exton Mall's another mile up the road, and while there's sporadic sidewalks between the two malls, I've never bothered with that walk.
Given the proximity of this shopping center to public transit, I don't think it's a big leap to suggest that the decision to exclude sidewalks was at best a classist choice, at worst a racist choice.
I live in a part of Philadelphia that's unusually pedestrian friendly, all things considered. I can walk to pick up groceries (except I get those delivered), the hardware store, coffee shops, restaurants, galleries, all manner of everyday things that, when I lived in the exurbs, I had to hop in the car and drive anywhere from 5-30 minutes to get to, and it's fantastic. We've also got more methods of public transit than almost anywhere in the world (not saying the coverage is great, mind you), and I've been here long enough that despite all the challenges that come with living in an old urban center, I hope I never have to go back to a suburban lifestyle.
It was clear from the moment I pulled up to "Main Street" that these psuedo-downtowns miss the point.
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean... are you dismissing the bad because there’s worse? My takeaway is that this kind of new development looks better (“movie set”) than what you describe, but it does not meaningfully change how people use and interact with the space and with each other. The hard part is building a living, breathing, functional and healthy community on a continent that’s been built from the ground up around cars. There are so ma…
> There are so many examples everywhere in Europe and Asia, but I can’t think of many (any?) in North America. Manhattan.
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#94Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Too much parking creates sparseness which reduces walkability Anecdotes and all that but for me, there is also definitely a weird psychological factor when walking past big parking lots in the city I live in. It's just... weirdly oppressive in ways I cannot properly articulate, especially living in a city that predates cars by a couple hundred years. It feels like it takes longer to walk past even if it is the same…
You might be interested to learn about the Gehl Door Average, a metric that Jan Gehl came up with (based on his book Cities for People). It measures the number of doors per 100 meters of street frontage, and is a contributing factor to walkability: https://streets.mn/2014/11/06/front-doors-and-walkable-citie... Parking lots have a 0 GDA, and so feel weirdly empty when walking. (So do parks, but one easily-calculable…
parks are welcoming, while parking lots are not, so you could also think of parks having infinite GDA, since you can just walk in anywhere (assuming no fences or other impediments along the perimeter).
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean... are you dismissing the bad because there’s worse? My takeaway is that this kind of new development looks better (“movie set”) than what you describe, but it does not meaningfully change how people use and interact with the space and with each other. The hard part is building a living, breathing, functional and healthy community on a continent that’s been built from the ground up around cars. There are so ma…
> There are so many examples everywhere in Europe and Asia, but I can’t think of many (any?) in North America. Manhattan.
By age 45, 86% of Americans have had kids. Out of the remaining 14%, half say they wish they had kids. Just 5% say they don’t want kids—a number virtually unchanged from 1990. You can’t call an urban area functional and healthy if it can’t accommodate the medium and long term needs of 80-90% of the population.
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you don't have of street parking you get congestion as people park on streets - that is the reason why planners mandate of street parking.
I my recommend “The High Cost of Free Parking” by Donald Shoup to get a sense of what planners actually think about street parking.
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#98As someone who grew up in Manhattan, though, I do kind of laugh that he considers that development plan non-walkable. I was always happy to walk across the island east/west and only took subways north/south, so his impossible to walk to shopping center part of the development looks trivially walkable to my Manhattan self...
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#99Correct it's no vibrant, bustling organic downtown. But it's still a helluva lot better than nothing at all. The suburbs I grew up in? There were a bunch of shitty strip malls, and a single indoor mall with a single food court with zero natural lighting, taken over by teenagers after school because it was literally the only place to congregate besides the parking lot outside the supermarket. There was no local "cente…
A bit more expensive but they could add a few underground floors for parking. In cold , snowy climates this might even be an advantage. This would waste less surface area to parking lots but would add some cost.
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.9671917,-93.3477909,3a,75y,2...
The view from the end of the street is hilarious, from the context of "2D western facades." https://www.google.com/maps/@44.96558,-93.3476714,3a,75y,294... Hopefully google never updates that picture, this comment wont make sense someday.
Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You get something that is an entertainment product—it looks cute, but it’s functionally like a movie set or a theme park. Its design has the aesthetic signifiers of a traditional town, but none of the functionality, none of the deep responsiveness to the needs of the people living there. I think he encapsulates things nicely here. Barring some exceptions, town/village life in the US is basically non-existent. There…
All of those are benefits that come from high density living. But while they might say they like those benefits, most people will choose the benefits of low density living, such as more space (quarter acre lots with detached garages and front and back yards and 2,000+ sq ft interiors). Not to mention the benefit of being able to segregate children into different schools by socioeconomic status, by restricting differe…
This is heavily dependent on one's conditioning. I grew up in a late mid-century low density suburb - nothing like the exurban sprawl you see today, but still very far from walkable. I instinctively moved from that to high density older neighborhoods as an adult.
At least at the moment the trend tends to be towards demand for the benefits of increased density, as the culture has shifted to valuing experiences more than large (expensive-to-maintain) spaces.
However, with the old and still vibrant urban neighborhoods now priced out of reach for most, people who are seeking the benefits of urban living are attempting to densify first ring suburbs, which is leading to intergenerational conflicts in many suburban city halls.
> Not to mention the benefit of being able to segregate children into different schools by socioeconomic status, by restricting different incomes from living in the same school district via zoning laws requiring large lots and expensive properties, which also leads to unfeasible public transportation.
I agree that these factors are all present, and are usually enabled by planning and zoning rules, which often function as a replacement for the illegal racial neighborhood covenant system that used to be common in the US. IMO the current system is a shame, but I'm also aware that the system is working for the subset who can afford to exist on it's beneficial side, and those people tend to vote in local elections.