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The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

strongtowns.org

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Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#81

Post by bluGill »

aga98mtl wrote: post #18

While not perfect, this type of development is already a step-up above the unwalkable so called "power center". They have great upgrade potential when we'll figure out public transport. The parking lots closest to the walkable public strip can be turned into mixed use buildings. Solving infrastructure and public transit problems is not the job of real estate developers. It is our job as a society. There has to be pol…

We won't figure out transport though: there is no place for transit to run. The streets near some stores are far from others. The parking lot is the best place, but you are still running down the middle of them far from any store.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#82

Post by chapium »

oftenwrong wrote: post #15

Florida is almost entirely a place where you need a car to do anything. It is so absurdly spread-out that even driving at high speed on their high speed roads is a remarkably slow way to get anywhere. If people cannot park there, they cannot get there. Even if you built a real urban walkable neighbourhood with housing, stores, schools, offices, churches - a place where people could truly walk to all of their daily ne…

This is where the false urbanism comes in. Chicago for examples is in many ways a network of these islands. However they collide with each other giving a nice network effect. Its far from a perfect example, I feel its still rather sparse in design as to accommodate cars but there is less parking in general.

This plot as a designed urban center is very much like one of these islands but without adjacent neighborhoods to fill in any local gaps.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#84

Post by kop316 »

Bootwizard wrote: post #76

I live in a place exactly like this in Florida called Baldwin Park. It's much better designed and I love living here. The main difference is a few things (and these really matter to me): 1. All the parking is parallel parking along all the streets. This ensures that the number of businesses don't need their own massive ugly parking lots 2. There are actually apartments here above the businesses, so that it's always a…

Is it in Orlando?

If so, that actually looks like a pretty nice area! Judging by what I saw on the map, that would be a nice place to live.

If one looks at the map, you see multiple parks surrounding the area, an elementary and middle school that appears to be walkable, a sizeable grocery store, and a lake to walk around. While it looks to have a lot of streets still throughout, it looks to be much more than just an outdoor mall.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#85

Post by dublinben »

wingdom wrote: post #38
mc32 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit more expensive but they could add a few underground floors for parking. In cold , snowy climates this might even be an advantage. This would waste less surface area to parking lots but would add some cost.

Except this particular development is in Florida, where you can't go under ground, and hurricane building codes make building up more complicated and expensive. As a Florida resident, I would love to see more parking garages, so parking takes up less ground surface area.

The conclusion of the article is that there needs to be less parking altogether, not just fewer surface parking lots. Livable places prioritize people, not cars.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#86

Post by Bootwizard »

ses1984 wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #12

> Until you deal with the parking problem—which is done by building truly mixed-use places where people can meet their daily needs without hopping in the car—you haven’t created true urbanism. Daily needs means jobs for both you and your spouse, which won’t be in some random subdivision in Florida. It means schools, which don’t appear to be there either. It means the kids’ after school activities, again, missing from…

>Driving is unavoidable What about public transport?

I live in one of the major metro areas of Florida, and even here public transport is abysmal. We have a single train line that goes north south about 30-50 miles. And a few buses that basically ferry the homeless around all day while they sleep on it.

That's it.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#87

Post by atombender »

kop316 wrote: post #42

I wish the author would hit the non-walkability a bit harder. To get from one section to another, cross a street. To get from one side to another, you have to cross several streets. There is one area that did the same thing where I live (The Greene Town Center). I cannot simply think of why I would want to live there, and I was their target demographic! I really can't walk around inside of The Greene without having t…

You should check out the rest of the blog. The authors focus on walkability a lot.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#88

Post by atombender »

mtberatwork wrote: post #16
Steltek wrote: post #8

I think he's barking up the wrong tree. The problem isn't "movie set urbanism", it's just boring, old "too much parking". Too much parking creates sparseness which reduces walkability. But putting parking behind stores ("movie sets") creates a human scale street space. While organic urban growth should be cherished, there are extreme cases, like most American towns and cities, where urbanism needs to be forcefully bo…

> You get something that is an entertainment product—it looks cute, but it’s functionally like a movie set or a theme park. Its design has the aesthetic signifiers of a traditional town, but none of the functionality, none of the deep responsiveness to the needs of the people living there. I think he encapsulates things nicely here. Barring some exceptions, town/village life in the US is basically non-existent. There…

There are absolutely tons of towns like that, but they're old towns that grew organically from villages. Cold Spring, NY, Shelbourne Falls, MA and Santa Fe, NM are some examples that come to mind. What this blog is talking about is really new developments and the gradual transformation of old, previously functioning towns.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#89

Post by bluGill »

ses1984 wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #12

> Until you deal with the parking problem—which is done by building truly mixed-use places where people can meet their daily needs without hopping in the car—you haven’t created true urbanism. Daily needs means jobs for both you and your spouse, which won’t be in some random subdivision in Florida. It means schools, which don’t appear to be there either. It means the kids’ after school activities, again, missing from…

>Driving is unavoidable What about public transport?

Look close - that form factor doesn't leave any place for transit to run. Most things would be a long way from any stop/station. The density would support a line every 2000 meters with stops 800 meters apart I(exact numbers can be argued, range is right). That puts almost nothing near the stop/station so there won't be a transit in there.

Re: The Rise of “Movie-Set Urbanism”

#90

Post by vineyardmike »

mtberatwork wrote: post #16
Steltek wrote: post #8

I think he's barking up the wrong tree. The problem isn't "movie set urbanism", it's just boring, old "too much parking". Too much parking creates sparseness which reduces walkability. But putting parking behind stores ("movie sets") creates a human scale street space. While organic urban growth should be cherished, there are extreme cases, like most American towns and cities, where urbanism needs to be forcefully bo…

> You get something that is an entertainment product—it looks cute, but it’s functionally like a movie set or a theme park. Its design has the aesthetic signifiers of a traditional town, but none of the functionality, none of the deep responsiveness to the needs of the people living there. I think he encapsulates things nicely here. Barring some exceptions, town/village life in the US is basically non-existent. There…

Visit New England, many of the towns there have nice downtown sections which are walkable, and have town squares, etc.
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